FAQ Search Memberlist Calendar
Usergroups Profile Rules The 'Soup

Log in RegisterRegister
Calendar
The time now is Sat May 25, 2013 3:57 am
All times are Pacific Time (UTC - 8)
 Forum index » Newswire » The 'Soup Updates
New myth article, some minor updates, and a tiny review
Moderators: [email protected]
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 5 of 6 [79 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next
Abel
Zanzibar Land Poisonous Hamster
Monster


Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 2206
Warnings: 2
Caution

Location: Germany, Heilbronn
MGO Name: [Morrowind]
Gender: Male
Age: 22

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:43 am    Post subject:  

Ravi Singh wrote:
Based on your logic, it is. All you see if Big Boss crying at the end. THEN SUDDENLY OMG HES CRAAAAAAAZY!1111111

The "problem" here is that something was not specifically shown or explained. Which is ironic because the biggest issue with Guns of the Patriots besides it being unnecessary was that it explained too much.

But while Kinsoku Jiko has his own theory, I have my own. What's the problem with leaving things open? Why do you want things to be, just like the rest of the plot, be explained? Based on your logic, Portable Ops, Peace Walker and other Big Boss prequels are needed because for some odd reason, the ending of Snake Eater just leaves things too open.


I understand what you mean but MGS3 implied enough to make sense out of it for yourself.

As for MGS4, the actual problem was explaining certain things and NOT explaining other things, such as Vamp not killing himself, Eva jumping into fire, Big Boss etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail 

John
You're.... a man?!
Head Bro


Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 4685
Warnings: 0
0 Warnings

Location: BROther Base
MGO Name: JKILLAZ224
Gender: Male

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:07 am    Post subject:  

"Naomi told me... everything."
"There's something else, Naomi wanted me to tell you."


Now we're just going around in circles.

_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 

Abel
Zanzibar Land Poisonous Hamster
Monster


Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 2206
Warnings: 2
Caution

Location: Germany, Heilbronn
MGO Name: [Morrowind]
Gender: Male
Age: 22

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:10 am    Post subject:  

This doesn't imply anything but that Naomi told Big Boss about Snake's situation and all that Patriots AI garbage.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail 

John
You're.... a man?!
Head Bro


Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 4685
Warnings: 0
0 Warnings

Location: BROther Base
MGO Name: JKILLAZ224
Gender: Male

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:16 am    Post subject:  

You know, have you ever considered that, maybe, Kojima has left this little detail unexplained because he wanted the player to find it for themselves?

He did something like that in MGS2, which would lead to the VR Theory.

_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 

Abel
Zanzibar Land Poisonous Hamster
Monster


Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 2206
Warnings: 2
Caution

Location: Germany, Heilbronn
MGO Name: [Morrowind]
Gender: Male
Age: 22

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:19 am    Post subject:  

No I don't think so, I first thought so too but it's too far fetched and retarded to be planned by Kojima.

The Vamp and Eva examples aswell, I doubt Kojima thought about this.

It's badly written.

So is Big Boss.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail 

Elman
emoXwolf Fetishist
Robert De-Fucking-Niro


Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 1376
Warnings: 1
Caution

Location: Your ass
Gender: Male
Age: 18

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:07 am    Post subject:  

So now all the MGS3-4 hate is coming to the Soup too?

Come THE FUCK on.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail 

Zerim
Cool Raiden moving without awkward feel
in 60 frames


Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 7999
Warnings: 1
Caution

Location: Istanbul - Turkey
Gender: Male
Age: 21

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:09 am    Post subject:  

elman wrote:
So now all the MGS3-4 hate is coming to the Soup too?
"Coming"?

_________________
"We have not yet finished with Solid Snake, despite the fact that I wanted to let him die at the end of Guns of the Patriots." -Hideo Kojima

"Credibility lasts about two cycles of bad material, and then you'll probably never get it back." - Louis C.K.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 

John
You're.... a man?!
Head Bro


Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 4685
Warnings: 0
0 Warnings

Location: BROther Base
MGO Name: JKILLAZ224
Gender: Male

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:28 am    Post subject:  

elman wrote:
So now all the MGS3-4 hate is coming to the Soup too?
My god, people have OPINIONS?!

How the fuck is my theory far fetched?

_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 

Abel
Zanzibar Land Poisonous Hamster
Monster


Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 2206
Warnings: 2
Caution

Location: Germany, Heilbronn
MGO Name: [Morrowind]
Gender: Male
Age: 22

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:33 am    Post subject:  

elman wrote:
So now all the MGS3-4 hate is coming to the Soup too?

Come THE FUCK on.


AHAHAH OH WOW

Quote:
How the fuck is my theory far fetched?


Which theory are we talking about now? You have more than one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail 

Son of Liberty
Soup Sucker
PUOS FO NOITPURROL A


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 98
Warnings: 1
Caution

Location: Chicago, IL
Age: 22

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:06 pm    Post subject:  

My confusion is this: people see Big Boss in MG2 as the personification of an evil bastard who ostensibly created Outer Heaven over his lifetime simply because he is an asshole. It's like you wanted a one-dimensional character. That is shitty writing.

MGS3 could have portrayed Big Boss in a darker, more philosophically troubled character, but it didn't contradict anything either. He was green. He listened more than he spoke. The Boss was everything to him. He was deluding himself into believing war and killing was a patriotic service and that, for the most part, his superiors were honest with him. The Snake Eater mission crushed everything he felt was real, stable, and lasting. War, politics, love....everything became a fleeting memory to him. He let go of everything that mattered.

As he began to travel to different war-torn countries, Big Boss was exposed to even more corruption and manipulation that the American Philosophers perpetuated--in addition to other fucked up governments. Soldiers left abandoned by their countries (ala MPO's Soviet soldiers), war orphans (like Fox), child soldiers, etc.

So...
Big Boss let go of his country, identity, and past affiliations
His trust in nations and ideologies dwindled
He was only living when he was in battle
He realizes peace is not a natural state of mankind, that war is everlasting
His only place is on the battlefield. Other soldiers feel the same so they join him.
He saves countless war orphans and child soldiers. He gives them a chance to fight back at those who destroyed their lives. hence, feeding them back into the battlefield...a perfectly logical system.
By the time of Outer Heaven, he has lost hope in humanity, like The Patriots, and decides to fuck America aka THe Patriots up the ass.
MY perspective (after playing the series) is that he wanted to either collapse America or find a way to destroy The Patriots's countless facilities and systems using Metal Gear. He knew they were planning a spreading their control to the point where the world would NEED to rely on them, so he needed to act.
Plus, he was losing his mind and wanted Western nations to experience what the rest of the world was experiencing...a battlefield every day, starvation, death. Liquid Ocelot said this of Big Boss at the end of the game.

My point is...nothing was contradicted. Play MG2 again. There are many hints as to why he created Outer Heaven. Perpetuating war wasn't the single reason...it was the result of his betrayal and all the betrayal he witnessed wandering the world.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 

Elman
emoXwolf Fetishist
Robert De-Fucking-Niro


Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 1376
Warnings: 1
Caution

Location: Your ass
Gender: Male
Age: 18

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:35 pm    Post subject:  

John wrote:
OPINIONS


Of course they do, John. I just hope this doesn't turn into KPN all of a sudden.

Abel wrote:
AHAHAH OH WOW



http://www.youtube.com/v/pUcP0Mg5wW8


Son of Liberty wrote:
what he said


You make sense.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail 

John
You're.... a man?!
Head Bro


Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 4685
Warnings: 0
0 Warnings

Location: BROther Base
MGO Name: JKILLAZ224
Gender: Male

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:49 pm    Post subject:  

Son of Liberty wrote:
My confusion is this: people see Big Boss in MG2 as the personification of an evil bastard who ostensibly created Outer Heaven over his lifetime simply because he is an asshole. It's like you wanted a one-dimensional character. That is shitty writing.

MGS3 could have portrayed Big Boss in a darker, more philosophically troubled character, but it didn't contradict anything either. He was green. He listened more than he spoke. The Boss was everything to him. He was deluding himself into believing war and killing was a patriotic service and that, for the most part, his superiors were honest with him. The Snake Eater mission crushed everything he felt was real, stable, and lasting. War, politics, love....everything became a fleeting memory to him. He let go of everything that mattered.

As he began to travel to different war-torn countries, Big Boss was exposed to even more corruption and manipulation that the American Philosophers perpetuated--in addition to other fucked up governments. Soldiers left abandoned by their countries (ala MPO's Soviet soldiers), war orphans (like Fox), child soldiers, etc.

So...
Big Boss let go of his country, identity, and past affiliations
His trust in nations and ideologies dwindled
He was only living when he was in battle
He realizes peace is not a natural state of mankind, that war is everlasting
His only place is on the battlefield. Other soldiers feel the same so they join him.
He saves countless war orphans and child soldiers. He gives them a chance to fight back at those who destroyed their lives. hence, feeding them back into the battlefield...a perfectly logical system.
By the time of Outer Heaven, he has lost hope in humanity, like The Patriots, and decides to fuck America aka THe Patriots up the ass.
MY perspective (after playing the series) is that he wanted to either collapse America or find a way to destroy The Patriots's countless facilities and systems using Metal Gear. He knew they were planning a spreading their control to the point where the world would NEED to rely on them, so he needed to act.
Plus, he was losing his mind and wanted Western nations to experience what the rest of the world was experiencing...a battlefield every day, starvation, death. Liquid Ocelot said this of Big Boss at the end of the game.

My point is...nothing was contradicted. Play MG2 again. There are many hints as to why he created Outer Heaven. Perpetuating war wasn't the single reason...it was the result of his betrayal and all the betrayal he witnessed wandering the world.
I
FUCKING
LOVE
YOU

Give this man a medal!

Quote:
Of course they do, John. I just hope this doesn't turn into KPN all of a sudden.
Please. The game's been out for two years. If it hasn't turn into another TUS/KPN yet, it never will.

_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 

Elman
emoXwolf Fetishist
Robert De-Fucking-Niro


Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 1376
Warnings: 1
Caution

Location: Your ass
Gender: Male
Age: 18

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:42 pm    Post subject:  

John wrote:
The game's been out for two years. If it hasn't turn into another TUS/KPN yet, it never will.


But what about... oh fuck that shit, you win.

Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail 

Abel
Zanzibar Land Poisonous Hamster
Monster


Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 2206
Warnings: 2
Caution

Location: Germany, Heilbronn
MGO Name: [Morrowind]
Gender: Male
Age: 22

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:06 am    Post subject:  

This doesn't change anything, you just wrote down WHY Big Boss has become such an asshole.

This doesn't change the fact that he indeed WAS a selfish asshole.

Starting war in order to get more soldiers, feed them with your own sick beliefs and brainwash them, that's what Big Boss did and this is not being misunderstood or having different morals.

This is having NO morals and being selfish, he never talked about his soldiers like they are his children or brothers, he calls them nothing but tools.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail 

Zerim
Cool Raiden moving without awkward feel
in 60 frames


Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 7999
Warnings: 1
Caution

Location: Istanbul - Turkey
Gender: Male
Age: 21

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:08 am    Post subject:  

Abel wrote:
This is having NO morals and being selfish, he never talked about his soldiers like they are his children or brothers, he calls them nothing but tools.
You now realize that "morals" is a human concept that has no proof backing it up in nature, and that all organisms are selfish to a degree.

_________________
"We have not yet finished with Solid Snake, despite the fact that I wanted to let him die at the end of Guns of the Patriots." -Hideo Kojima

"Credibility lasts about two cycles of bad material, and then you'll probably never get it back." - Louis C.K.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 

 
Display posts from previous:    Sort by:    
 
Page 5 of 6 [79 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Newswire » The 'Soup Updates
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

© 2002, 2003 - 2011 The Snake Soup. THE 'SOUP | THE GAMES | THE BRIEFING | THE FEATURES | THE JUNK | THE SITE | THE LINKED