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Is Kojima misogynistic? [spoiler] - Printable Version

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Is Kojima misogynistic? [spoiler] - Smiley - 04-13-2014 12:43 PM

Whether intentionally or unintentionally I cannot think of any woman in his own series that hasn't been either violated, objectified, harassed or punished to some degree. I understand a good number of his main male cast (including the player characters) have fallen to similar circumstances, but when it comes to the women I have to wonder why there's so many instances where women are victimized or treated as objects of desire.

In the case of MGSV we have yet another example. Paz and Chico are assaulted, but to further the pain and torment we learn that Paz was also given two bombs placed inside her. We've had women violated and tortured in the games before, but now it seems like Kojima wants to push it a step further with the bombs. And it just comes off as creepy. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Quiet (who we know gets tortured) also ends up in the same boat being the victim of sexual assault or objectification just because it seems so common now.


RE: Is Kojima misogynistic? - Nike Schneider - 04-13-2014 12:52 PM

Nastasha Romanenko.


RE: Is Kojima misogynistic? - Smiley - 04-13-2014 01:03 PM

Well there's her. Isn't she the character you can completely ignore in MGS? The only codec character you have to call to bring relevance to her character?

But you're right. There's an example.


RE: Is Kojima misogynistic? - Code_R - 04-13-2014 01:12 PM

Sexism and homophobia are prevalent because these are cliched b-movie scripts but would you say he has clear contempt for the opposite sex or is he just following bad character writing 101?


RE: Is Kojima misogynistic? - Nike Schneider - 04-13-2014 01:13 PM

Someone came here like last month and brought up some good points on this subject but people shot her the fuck down (probably because she was being sensationalist on her end, but still) so she left. Actually I think I might have caused her to leave because I criticized both extremes of that argument and she thought I was particularly targeting her.

But yeah, Kojima tends to be pretty terrible when it comes to writing female characters. This isn't about "strong" females either since The Boss is pretty fucking strong and in a way so is Paz in Ground Zeroes when you consider she refused to give any information about MSF. They just usually feel so god damn 1-dimentional. I still don't get how The Boss was "charismatic." Could also be voice acting.

(04-13-2014 01:12 PM)Fight the Future Wrote:  Sexism and homophobia are prevalent because these are cliched b-movie scripts but would you say he has clear contempt for the opposite sex or is he just following bad character writing 101?

Bad character writing for sure. Look at any work of fiction written by Frank Miller and Stephen Moffat.


RE: Is Kojima misogynistic? [spoiler] - Smiley - 04-13-2014 01:46 PM

Could be the voice acting. I like Lori Alan, but she seems better suited for comedy (Spongebob, Family Guy) than drama. Honestly, I was under the impression that The Boss AI in Peace Walker should feel more disconnected than usual, but because she came across kinda one note in MGS3 it was more of the same.

With The Boss though I recently watched one of the Saga volume DVDs and saw that Kojima wanted to expose The Boss's breast during a boss battle. His reason being maternity yet the Snake on her breast would be laughing as it jiggled during the fight. Ihonestly don't think the message would have came through like he thought it might so no wonder that idea was discarded. Still, the sidebewbage played for laughs in Metal Gear Raiden, and I have no doubt that the updated models in the re-released promos were just to promote maternal themes about the game. ;>_>

One of my oldest gripes has been Meryl. I really like the character and felt awful hearing that she endured pain and shame and worse things than torture. Whatever the implication she seemed to get over it like it was nothing by the time MGS4 rolled around. Holding no real grudge or agenda against Liquid Ocelot. But... MGS4....


RE: Is Kojima misogynistic? [spoiler] - Nike Schneider - 04-13-2014 03:12 PM

Interesting thing about the MGS3D renders for The Boss... http://thesnakesoup.org/forums/Thread-Pre-E3-Snake-Eater-3D-site-censored-for-western-audiences


RE: Is Kojima misogynistic? [spoiler] - Code_R - 04-13-2014 03:43 PM

Quote:Interesting thing about the MGS3D renders for The Boss
3DS target audience?

Quote:Whatever the implication she seemed to get over it like it was nothing by the time MGS4 rolled around.

Meryl learned about the brutality of war... it was excessive but you can logically put it down as a character arc, an effective one or not. Whether or not this is down to her being a woman is up to interpretation, i.e. she wasn't up to the challenge like the real soldiers. The fact that she turns up at all in MGS4 is idiotic though never mind her apparent brain transplant.

Later on Kojima becomes less creative - the B&B Corps for example is complete shit with no writing or attempts at a personality involved. Awful.


RE: Is Kojima misogynistic? [spoiler] - Smiley - 04-13-2014 04:30 PM

I wouldn't have minded that. She goes through a physical transformation in MGS4 where she bulks up, takes command and clearly looks more like someone who has trained their life to be a soldier.

Her open berate of men as nothing but egotistical pigs could have been a factor into it, but those comments in the game were made at the expense of her father, and she still shows interest in Snake (then later Johnny) which means she was just throwing a tantrum at the given moment over Campbell pulling strings. And I'm still amazed at how she disregards Liquid Ocelot given that she was still tortured by them and I believe she should have shown more attention to the matter. Didn't have to be pain or anguish, but something other than "Liquid's in the area."


RE: Is Kojima misogynistic? [spoiler] - DarthCaligula - 04-13-2014 06:01 PM

We discussed this in another topic. Meryl's story in MGS4 makes no sense and is a mockery of what we saw in MGS1.


RE: Is Kojima misogynistic? [spoiler] - Neo Heaven - 04-13-2014 06:53 PM

(04-13-2014 01:13 PM)Punished Singh Wrote:  But yeah, Kojima tends to be pretty terrible when it comes to writing female characters. This isn't about "strong" females either since The Boss is pretty fucking strong and in a way so is Paz in Ground Zeroes when you consider she refused to give any information about MSF. They just usually feel so god damn 1-dimentional. I still don't get how The Boss was "charismatic." Could also be voice acting.

I would definitely put part of the reason on the voice acting. I feel like some good groundwork was there, but The Boss never came across as interesting to me. Her limited interactions with others just don't seem to show her as being the type of character whom I would believe anyone -- much less the codec team from MGS3 -- would idolize.


RE: Is Kojima misogynistic? [spoiler] - Solidsuitlarry - 04-13-2014 10:45 PM

These are the times I wish there were more people in the soup forums who played the original Japanese language versions of the games so we can see how much of the apparent sexism comes from the source itself and how much was from the English localization.

Once again, fuck what Kojima did to Meryl in MGS4. While not as deep she always seemed to me to be to MGS1 what Raiden was to MGS2, then her behavior in MGS4 is also comparable to Raiden becoming a retarded cyborg ninja and more evidence Kojima was trying to ruin the series or simply had no idea what it was that made her important to MGS1 in the first place.

As for Jacqui not going to say everyone tried to keep the peace with her but she made her own problems Ravi, nothing you said warranted her behavior. But shit you seemed to have already known her so I don't know.


RE: Is Kojima misogynistic? [spoiler] - Code_R - 04-14-2014 03:59 AM

(04-13-2014 06:01 PM)DarthCaligula Wrote:  We discussed this in another topic. Meryl's story in MGS4 makes no sense and is a mockery of what we saw in MGS1.

I dont remember it coming up, thought it was just me that thought that.

What about Naomi though? The stupid cameo and immediate death thing is pretty bad.


RE: Is Kojima misogynistic? [spoiler] - Solidsuitlarry - 04-14-2014 04:33 AM

Yeah and all if a sudden she's inspired by Monica Belluci? Where the fuck did Kojima pull that from?


RE: Is Kojima misogynistic? [spoiler] - Nike Schneider - 04-14-2014 05:49 AM

Guns of the Patriots felt like fanfiction most of the time.