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What's your personal Metal Gear canon?
01-05-2018, 03:39 AM
Post: #1
What's your personal Metal Gear canon?
I know this is a real geeky discussion, but bear with me.

There exists the concept of "head canon" that you, as a fan, can choose to ignore whatever entries in any given franchise or series you don't like.

So for me, my main Metal Gear canon would be Metal Gear, Metal Gear 2, Metal Gear Solid, Metal Gear Solid 2 and Metal Gear Solid 3, after that is when things get dicey, real dicey.

Regardless of all the problems of 4, V and Peace Walker, at the very least the whole thing makes the series' story so bloated and complicated, I feel like Metal Gear Solid 1-3 tell a fairly complete story, 2 ends on an open note but that's what Kojima intended.

The series continuing on beyond that is cautionary tale of knowing when to say a story is over, if you keep going "but then what happened?" you can drag something out forever until it collapses under it's own weight.

4, V and Peace Walker are not games I totally ignore the existence of, but for my sanity's sake I deem them "soft canon" and 1-3 as "hard canon"
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01-05-2018, 05:54 AM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2018 12:30 PM by Canucklehead.)
Post: #2
RE: What's your personal Metal Gear canon?
It goes Metal Gear, Snake's Revenge, Ninja Gaiden.

Alright, fuck. I just ignore the prequel games because they do nothing but fuck everything else up. MGS2 is also 99% useless to the overall story, so that whole game is just a side-story.

So MG1, MG2, MGS1, MGS4, but the very end of MGS4 is a Jacob's Ladder and Snake is actually dead, because that horrific plot-twist ruined the entire series for me.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
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01-05-2018, 11:43 AM
Post: #3
RE: What's your personal Metal Gear canon?
MG1, MG2, MGS1, MGS2, MGS3, MGS4, MGSPW, MGSV...

Snatcher, Policenauts, Zone of the Enders
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01-05-2018, 01:08 PM
Post: #4
RE: What's your personal Metal Gear canon?
Pretty much, I think of MG1, MG2, MGS1, and MGS2 as one thing together, and everything after is just Kojima telling a bunch of metaphors for how he feels at the time. For example, now everyone says "DUR HUR, IT WAZN'T BIG BOSS AT OUTER HEAVEN, IT WUZ VENOM SNAKE!!!!1!!1111" I don't care. When I talk about Metal Gear, I'll call him Big Boss, and when I talk about the AI talking to Raiden at the end of MGS2, I'll call him JFK, even though it seems that name was retconned out with MGS4. I look at the games in the context of when they came out.

Besides, you can't account for MGS4 and beyond with the earlier games, because pretty much nothing is consistent.
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01-06-2018, 11:03 AM
Post: #5
RE: What's your personal Metal Gear canon?
If it does not get into the game, I do not acknowledge it.
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01-07-2018, 07:04 PM
Post: #6
RE: What's your personal Metal Gear canon?
(01-05-2018 11:43 AM)THEND Wrote:  MG1, MG2, MGS1, MGS2, MGS3, MGS4, MGSPW, MGSV...

Snatcher, Policenauts, Zone of the Enders

So you're pretty forgiving eh?

I can live with the overall series, there are aspects of 4 and V that I like, but taken as a whole it's just too much, I guess you could say 1-3 are the "hard canon" as in "it definitely happened" and 4, V and PW are "soft canon" as in "maybe they happened"

As far as other Kojima stuff goes, Snatcher was clearly intended to be set in the same world as the original Metal Gear but as the series went that can no longer be the case, I'm not familiar with Policenauts as I haven't played it, but I've always thought of Zone of The Enders as being set in the world of Metal Gear Solid but in the far future with the "Orbital Frames" just being Metal Gears after centuries of technological progress.

(01-05-2018 01:08 PM)DarthCaligula Wrote:  Pretty much, I think of MG1, MG2, MGS1, and MGS2 as one thing together, and everything after is just Kojima telling a bunch of metaphors for how he feels at the time. For example, now everyone says "DUR HUR, IT WAZN'T BIG BOSS AT OUTER HEAVEN, IT WUZ VENOM SNAKE!!!!1!!1111" I don't care. When I talk about Metal Gear, I'll call him Big Boss, and when I talk about the AI talking to Raiden at the end of MGS2, I'll call him JFK, even though it seems that name was retconned out with MGS4. I look at the games in the context of when they came out.

Besides, you can't account for MGS4 and beyond with the earlier games, because pretty much nothing is consistent.

Yup, that's another issue and it's a pretty old one too, doesn't Big Boss never actually say he's Snakes father in MG1 or 2 despite that Metal Gear Solid implies he did? So it's never been the most airtight canon at the best of times.
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01-08-2018, 09:15 AM
Post: #7
RE: What's your personal Metal Gear canon?
MG1, MG2, MGS1, MGS2, MGS3. I once thought of my own version of what happened in supposed MGS4 and 5.
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01-08-2018, 12:11 PM
Post: #8
RE: What's your personal Metal Gear canon?
What's ur own version. Is this not secretly a theory thread.
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01-08-2018, 12:23 PM
Post: #9
RE: What's your personal Metal Gear canon?
(01-07-2018 07:04 PM)Higharolla Kockamamie Wrote:  Yup, that's another issue and it's a pretty old one too, doesn't Big Boss never actually say he's Snakes father in MG1 or 2 despite that Metal Gear Solid implies he did? So it's never been the most airtight canon at the best of times.

That's right, he never actually tells Snake that he's his father in the first two games, it was new information introduced in Metal Gear Solid. I guess we can assume Snake found out the truth in between Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2 at some point.
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01-09-2018, 09:40 AM
Post: #10
RE: What's your personal Metal Gear canon?
He says he knew full well who he was when he killed him and that big boss wanted to die.
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01-09-2018, 11:43 AM
Post: #11
RE: What's your personal Metal Gear canon?
They are all canon to me. Including Portable OPs. No matter what Kojima says, mess as they are, that's what they were advertised as under his watch.

Only ones I dont count are RISING, Ac!d and GhostBabel and that MGS2 phone game.
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01-09-2018, 01:18 PM (This post was last modified: 01-09-2018 01:37 PM by SexyKaz.)
Post: #12
RE: What's your personal Metal Gear canon?
(01-08-2018 12:11 PM)THEND Wrote:  What's ur own version. Is this not secretly a theory thread.

A'ight, I try to be quick and clear with this shit.

I started thinking this around the time the first actual trailer of MGS4 came around and stopped after couple of years after it came out so it's also a little what I expected the game to be and half of what I would've done differently. I try to remeber what I thought back then, though I think I don't remember half of it...

I liked to think that the series would've ended in something like MGS4 meets Ghost Babel meets Godfather part 2. I really liked the MGS4's idea of battlefield control so keeping that as a basic setting while the theme'd be around sense and will. Instead of traveling around the world the game would've taken place in a somewhere where western and eastern world collide (probably a fictional war-torn Istanbul or Jugoslavia). There'd also be small sections of Big Boss's life from his departure of Patriots to him aquiring Metal Gear, hence the Godfather part 2 part.

Snake'd been a even more weathered and damaged as he had traveled the war zone after another alone for years. He'd be what he'd always said never wanting to be: aimlessly drifting from war to another without a cause or purpose. He's a relic from a time of conventional warfare in a world of nanomachines, VR simulations and digital warfare, kinda how MGS was the oddball series in the world of mainstream shooter games.

During the story Snake would be part of different groups that all seem to be against each other, Patriot-supervised military with Campbell, more of an extremist Philantropy with Otacon and former (child) soldiers of Outer Heaven. Snake would've have that fuck-the-world-attitude of MGS4 but with the idea that The main antagonists would've be an American-based PMC company that would have stretched its influence across governments and different industries. Basically if Google bought Lockheed Martin. The PMC would've been lead by an old man who is seemingly the last of the Patriots and is trying to reclaim his leadership over the Patriot AI, thinking that only he and hes hand-picked desciples could lead the world from the shadows.

The bosses would've been the leaders of sister PMC's of the main PMC, including a soldier wielding few of the iconic pistols of the series (think Ocelot with a twist), a soldier with the abillity to cocoon his skin to deflect bullets but hindering his movement and a "boss fight", where the player would've have to find a disguised PMC leader in a base camp (a la Kojima's idea of a Decoy Octopus boss fight in MGS1 + Assassin's Creed).

Kinda like the MGS4 this version would've closed the arks of both Solid Snake and Big Boss, though the focused would've been more heavily on Solid, while Big Boss would've been what Snake reflects himself on from time to time. The BB segments of the game would've included his mercenary days in Vietnam just months before the formation of Fox-Hound, his unceremonious escape from Patriots HQ and the formation of Outer Heaven. The final chapter kinda plays with the idea that Snake's life has been similar to Big Boss's and how Snake in his final days should assume the control of the remains of Outer Heaven's legacy.

The game would've ended on U.S. soil, in the core of the Patriots' A.I., the A.I. would be dramatically destroyed, leaving America's (or the amount of world under its indirect/direct control) faith uncertain. After a showdown with Liquid, which I imagined would be pretty much the same way it was in MGS4 but going through all the games, not only through music and fighting styles, but altering both Snakes visually aswell. After the fight Snake could choose if he'd walk with the Campbell group (willingly surrender himself), try to escape (side with Philantropy) or fail to do so and be apprehended by U.S. soldiers left to die (eventually be rescued by the leader of Outer Heaven's remains). The player would then hear their version of how the side they sided with sees the world in post-Patriots era. Snake would eventually leave the party whoever he sided with and return for a final scene with Otacon and Campbell. The very final scene would have had careful hints about if Snake is actually there or has he met his demise and the character is just an idea of Snake.

In short, what I would have had in my MGS4 that MGS4 had:
- Nanomachines (but less)
- Battlefield control as a backdrop
- SENSE but in a little less literate meaning
- Stealth-gameplay amidst conflict
- Old Snake is Old.
- The ending leads to destruction to both Patriots and the idea of Outer Heaven, but the faith of the remaining world would be uncertain.

What I would have had that wasn't in the actual game:
- Big Boss as a central character but not taking the focus of the game
- less recurring characters
- no horrible romantic sub-plots
- probably not Snake's moustache, but I haven't made up my mind on the matter
(speaking of, I kinda based my Old Snake of this version on some weird MGS2 Snake mod I saw somewhere waaaay back. Snake had grey hair, similar beard, dark eyes and a weird large cheek scar. If somebody stumbles on that I'd be happy).

-

As I assumed a fifth one was gonna come out I first tought it'd be fun if it was a game from a perspective of a random Outer Heaven soldier, telling a different story about Big Boss. Turns out we got just that, but in the very, very different way I, or anyone else thought.

What I thought would be different was if we could choose other ways of infiltration than dropping from a chopper, like parajumping, underwater infiltration or traveling in a cardboard box on a truck (something that was kinda in one of the side ops of Ground Zeroes but weirdly not in TPP).

The story I thought would've been probably what all of us thought, Big Boss's actual tragedy and formation of Outer Heaven, only I would've skipped Peace Walker altogether and my MGSV would've taken place on a 10 year gap between 1974 to 1984. It would've feature areas in South America, Africa and Middle East and focus on different conflicts of that time and place and also key moments of BB's life like civil wars, finding Gray Fox and acquiring his own nuclear weapon. Instead of RACE and REVENGE theme would've been HOME (a theme ending in 'e' as is the case in the previous entries lol) as in how Snake's group is situated on a large aircraft carrier rather than mother base, victims of war losing their homes, losing sides losing their indepenence, etc.

Stead of Skullfuck the main bad guy would've been the main bad guy from my MGS4 fanfi- idea. It'd been revealed that he is pretty much a normal business guy who'd have little experience of war itself, rather being a big hustler in business world, pulling the strings in the darkness.

Quote:He says he knew full well who he was when he killed him and that big boss wanted to die.
I always liked to think he did know, but did they really ever mention it in the games?
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01-09-2018, 05:28 PM
Post: #13
RE: What's your personal Metal Gear canon?
All good ideas, I like those a lot.
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01-09-2018, 06:05 PM
Post: #14
RE: What's your personal Metal Gear canon?
Big Boss only became Snake's pappy in MGS1. It wasn't a thing prior to that.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
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01-09-2018, 06:46 PM
Post: #15
RE: What's your personal Metal Gear canon?
I think Kojima intends the original MSX Metal Gear to be taken not quite literally, what you've heard about what happened with Snake's legendary adventure into Outer Heaven in the other games is what happened rather than what's in the actual game itself.

I think it's because of how old and archaic the original Metal Gear is in comparison, remember Venom Snake pops in what seems to be a copy of Metal Gear into a computer at the end of Phantom Pain, almost implying in his spare time he programmed a game on how he thought things were going to go down (Venom was always meant as a decoy meant to die so the real Big Boss could fake his death) which is a pretty meta way to contextualize the original Metal Gear in the rest of the series.

So we can assume that in the "real" version of the events Big Boss did have a "Snake, I am your father!" moment (though ironically it was Venom Snake of course)

I wish there had been some sort of remake of the original Metal Gear, like a GBA game say, that would have been cool.
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