Post Reply 
What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
03-27-2014, 08:59 PM
Post: #31
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
Just to add to your post up there...women aren't dating or marrying male feminists and if they are well......yeah...sucks to be them.

I could go on about how women aren't able to be seen by men as both whores and wives just like women aren't able to see them as both "guy friends" and "arm candy" but fuck it...I just did...
QUOTE
03-28-2014, 08:28 AM (This post was last modified: 03-28-2014 08:29 AM by Da Vinci.)
Post: #32
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
(03-27-2014 08:59 PM)nanoMACHINEgun Wrote:  Just to add to your post up there...women aren't dating or marrying male feminists and if they are well......yeah...sucks to be them.

That's another one of those things, i talk to alot of people on skype, both female and male about this "controversy" and they all said it fit in context to the story.

"We have a blacksite, we have a villain who wants information at any cost and will do anything to get it, and we have prisoners that have said information, nothing about that screams exploitative or sexist" more or less they all said.

And in regards to feminists...do you want to date somebody male or female who bitches about 99% of content shown in any media, who can never be satisfied ever, or do you want someone a bit more open minded who can tell shit from non shit?

Only date feminists for their body, they don't have anything else to show for it.
QUOTE
03-28-2014, 11:46 AM
Post: #33
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
(03-28-2014 08:28 AM)Da Vinci Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 08:59 PM)nanoMACHINEgun Wrote:  Just to add to your post up there...women aren't dating or marrying male feminists and if they are well......yeah...sucks to be them.
That's another one of those things, i talk to alot of people on skype, both female and male about this "controversy" and they all said it fit in context to the story.

"We have a blacksite, we have a villain who wants information at any cost and will do anything to get it, and we have prisoners that have said information, nothing about that screams exploitative or sexist" more or less they all said.
That's just it, too. As I said before, what's going on according to the content of the cassette-tapes is what I consider a "realistic portrayal" of what would happen in an interrogation center that isn't bound by local nor international law. Plus, though what I encourage will obviously piss people off and respond like "So what you're saying is--", the fact is that there is also a very pretty lady being involved there, being subject to interrogation. What do you think would happen to such a lady if she were imprisoned in such a facility? Even if they don't rape her (which is obviously the big thing here) she's still going to be smacked around and brutalized. And if people want to talk about equality here, well, if she's being smacked around and brutalized as I said just now, then she's being treated as an equal, because the other inmates are subject to such. But there's always an argument for things like that, like "She's just a woman!!" and other cries.....and, come to think of it, Paz has a unique background (having met Cipher in person), so for her to be treated "differently" from any other inmate is an inevitability. Too bad you can't respond with these facts because people will always be like "Yeah but" and completely shoot down those details.

My apologies for being rather shrewd and over-analytical by mentioning what to expect (like "Yeah but"). I'm just speaking from personal experience (like with that one liberal fascist I debated with in 2005, a non-blood relative, who married into the family). Just because I have doesn't mean nobody else could ever experience it. Just saying you should be ready for these instances if it looks like they'll happen.

Quote:And in regards to feminists...do you want to date somebody male or female who bitches about 99% of content shown in any media, who can never be satisfied ever, or do you want someone a bit more open minded who can tell shit from non shit?

Only date feminists for their body, they don't have anything else to show for it.
These days, a lot of "feminists" aren't necessarily for equality, but rather authority (or superiority, but what's the difference). I have a feeling most of them today haven't heard of the SCUM Manifesto, which is a good thing...for now.

Dating feminists for their body sounds interesting at first, unless they adhere to the classic stereotype of trying to be "manly" by having grown-out body hair and what-not.

I don't know what truly defines feminism anymore. Originally, feminism was about the promotion of the concept (or fact?) that women are people, and should be treated equally. But, really, both men and women have their own things that are unique to each other, things that are beneficial and/or disadvantageous to each other, themselves alone to experience. To me, this fact sort of "balances out" things in order to maintain the bridge of equality (for lack of another way to word it)....but when big deals are made out of these things, things which ought to just be trivial, then we're in that circumstance where we just can't have nice things.

[Image: dct_header_SIGN-300x67.jpg] [Image: ZazzleZodiacs.png]
"The only prayer I will say for you is this : Whatever hell awaits you, it won't be long before you see it."
COD:BO Official Website (with Community forums)
[Image: TwitterIcon.gif] [Image: FacebookIcon.gif] [Image: YouTubeIcon.gif]
QUOTE
03-28-2014, 03:18 PM
Post: #34
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
To add further credence to the fact we live in a political correctness climate, ask yourself: How many people bitched about EVA's attire or lack thereof back in the day?

Unless i was privileged enough not to see it, close to none.

How many people bitched about Sniper Wolf's attire aside from a couple of fandom jokes back in the day? None.

It's okay however to ignore say the No Shirt Required Trenchcoat Liquid in the Alaskan Winter or the homo erotic crush Ocelot has on Big Boss, or lines like "There's no one i would rather have in a foxhole than you".

It's only offensive when it involves women, well i say fuck that and fuck them.

And for all this "Done for shock value" crap i keep hearing, let's bring out the sacred cow of recent television history: Breaking Bad.

Remember that moment in season 5 where Todd shoots that kid?

I could easily pull the "Shock Value" card because it added close to nothing to the narrative at hand, aside from a "oh no" moment and a little bit of remorse felt by Jesse, which lasted approximately 1 episode total.

Or what about the moment where Walter poisons Brock (the kid)?
You could again argue it wasn't necessary because "There are better ways to making him a bad guy".

The sole purpose of that scene was to show what kind of antagonist he became over time, sometimes a little bit of "shock value" is needed to add tension and drama.

Or how about the second to last episode where Andrea (Jesse's second girlfriend) gets shot anticlimactically?

You could again argue that it was done for "shock value" because it didn't serve the greater narrative at hand and simply served to show her assailant (Todd) was a guy that wasn't fucking around at the time.

Now granted, this dark turn would probably mesh better if it was to be released alongside the Phantom Pain, but what's done is done.

Double standards, hate them.
QUOTE
03-28-2014, 08:25 PM
Post: #35
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
I wondered these last couple of years as to why people haven't bitched about Sniper Wolf and Eva.....honestly, more that I realize it, I think it has to do with the massive social-blogging capabilities we have now. I think that if we had what we have now back then, people would be complaining. Either that, or it's because videogaming, after all these decades, has finally become a mainstream thing. Or, maybe, there's an absurd mentality that continues on in people or even gets passed on to the next generation that, in the case of women, they find gynophilia to be disgusting......sadly, this latter one is something I can only speak of from personal experience. Thirteen years ago I said I loved women and people were looking at me like it was this horrifying, revolting, unspeakable thing, even going, "You sick FUCK!!" among other things (these were male classmates, for the record). So, hypothetically, this mentality could continue on in a new form, with men seeing these portrayals of women in videogames and reacting similarly, maybe in a less extreme form than what I experienced, but I don't know what it is. Is it guys trying to be "sophisticated" or whatever they call it? It's not being a white-knight; there's a difference I'm trying to point out here. The whole thing with this attitude & videogaming becoming mainstream sort of tie in together, though; I compare it to when I was much younger, when videogaming was still perceived as being about jumping on mushroom creatures, reddening your eyes to blindness, and rotting your brains. School teachers and counselors hated videogames especially because of the most latter perception. These days, though, videogaming has become a more socially-accepted thing, with more and more adults having played them (COD) and not looking down upon younger ones for playing games too.

Now, as for why it's wrong to portray women in videogames whereas homo-eroticism and topless big strong men are perfectly fine? I don't know. Homosexuality is something that is to be accepted at all costs, because if you have even one little dislike for them, you're a Nazi who wants to exterminate them from the face of the earth.....but let's save that one other thread for that issue.
As for Liquid, these days I can definitely see people pissing about Sniper Wolf, as opposed to Liquid being topless. Not only is it because female breasts are almost-always arousing to the eyes (though it's not like she's bearing them since she's wearing a coat over them), but also because of the mindset of the current social-justice movement. Sometimes I think it's because guys are like "This is giving me a boner; this is unacceptable!" or maybe just "Eww I see boobies!" but I can only ever guess. In this case, basically someone is experiencing significant discomfort and is blaming the game instead of himself for choosing to play it.

Oh, and I dare say that I've not seen Breaking Bad. I keep hearing about it, and I hear it's probably the best damn thing on television, but I've never seen an episode.

[Image: dct_header_SIGN-300x67.jpg] [Image: ZazzleZodiacs.png]
"The only prayer I will say for you is this : Whatever hell awaits you, it won't be long before you see it."
COD:BO Official Website (with Community forums)
[Image: TwitterIcon.gif] [Image: FacebookIcon.gif] [Image: YouTubeIcon.gif]
QUOTE
03-28-2014, 08:59 PM
Post: #36
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
(03-28-2014 08:25 PM)Old Gross Wrote:  Oh, and I dare say that I've not seen Breaking Bad. I keep hearing about it, and I hear it's probably the best damn thing on television, but I've never seen an episode.

It's definitely one of the better shows in say the last decade or so (That may be ignorant because i don't watch all that much tv).

But it also receives a bit too much hype, and you could easily pull the "offension card" if you're not a fan of the show.

It's kind of the crush we have for mgs, because we love it, we're willing to overlook certain things, the reason you don't hear people complaining about things like a guy shooting a kid in the face who must of had 2 minutes screentime total in Breaking Bad is because they're enamoured with it, and people become conditioned by others praise of the show to go in with a particular mindset that will enable them to like it that much more.

It's for a similar reason i can't take the Yakuza series seriously.

There are alot of fans out there who will defend the series top to bottom, for non fans these games are too dumb and goofy to be taken seriously, for fans they may excuse these things alot more.

We are so used to Kojima's brand of wacko that we are able to put it aside and examine what message he wants to transmit with his games, flawed execution and all.
QUOTE
03-29-2014, 09:50 AM
Post: #37
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
[Image: jhbqbk.jpg]

This is certainly the main thing I disagree with. MGS4 received a perfect score, yet required a massive amount of prior knowledge to understand its plot.
The argument that MGS4 offers an "extensive database" falls flat since a. Ground Zeroes offers a Backstory section and b. It has the Paz Diary tapes available as soon as you insert the disc.
I guess she's just bitching for the sake of it.

This is my signature. Like you give a fuck.
QUOTE
03-29-2014, 12:03 PM
Post: #38
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
"blindgunner187" makes a good point in that image. We, the gamers, have a responsibility to acquire any and all backstory for a character and/or the game itself so that we have an understanding prior to a game's sequel or prequel. Though these recent MGS games haven't been entirely coherent and consistent, Ground Zeroes proved to be an exception, that even though we're introduced to new characters, there are still some vital plot elements inherited by Ground Zeroes, such as the story about Chico and Paz; Chico had a crush on Paz in Peace Walker, and this was probably the prime cause for Chico to try and sneak into Camp Omega to rescue her, although he ends up getting caught.
However, regarding our personal responsibilities, times are different now. I doubt most casual gamers (casual gamers being the essence of the mainstream gaming community, IMO) would want to go back and play old games like Peace Walker and MGS3, especially MGS3, which is almost ten years old, though if they did they would get that necessary information....assuming casual gamers even care about a game's story, though. So, the responsibility to know everything is thus shifted to the game's developers, despite the possibility that it was KojiPro's choice to include a Backstory option in the game anyway, which even so I had no problem with, because I don't mind a little bit of reading and re-interpretation of events prior to Ground Zeroes. Heck I did that before even starting Ground Zeroes on March 18th.

Oh and IGN's Irish reviewer (pardon the assumption based on her last name) even admits that "most people won't bother listening to the tapes or playing Peace Walker". Well, her saying that might mean something....but did she herself play Peace Walker, or any other MGS game? Maybe she did, but she didn't take in the games' stories. Then again, what casual gamer would take in a game's story and memorize every little detail? Only geeks do that. [SARCASM]Ergh...disgusting fucking geeks; they're the scourge of society, always talking about shit that nobody understands. They memorize all these details about comics, movies, and games; how the fuck do they memorize how Wolverine got those claws and how Magneto ripped apart his adamantine-or-whatever skeleton? Movies and videogames are supposed to be fun, not something for people to dedicate their lives to. Fucking losers. Wait a minute....I said "scourge of society"; only geeks and nerds use such wording. Oh my God I'm a geek too. I'll never get pussy.[/SARCASM] You get my point, right? No? That second half of the sarcastic dialogue was actually based on a real event when I was in school back in 2002, where some classmates (one of whom was going into the Marines) were talking about some stuff about X-Men, detailing stuff about Wolverine and how he once had bone-claws since Magneto ripped out his adamantium skeleton (actually melted it and pulled it out of every opening and pore from Wolverine's body).....and that one bisexual lesbian was like "How do you memorize all that shit, man? Geez." My point here is that there is a mentality about certain groups of people, especially gamers. I can't speak for all of either category, the casual ones and the hardcore ones, plus casual & hardcore not only encompasses entire communities but even fans of specific franchises and series. I would thus assume that at least most hardcore MGS fans understand a lot of the series' story....therefore, they would be in a competent stance when reviewing an MGS game.
In the case of Ms. O'Brien, maybe she has played MGS games, but I don't think she could qualify as a "hardcore MGS fan", but being "hardcore" is a definition subject to perspective, meaning there are millions of definitions that are different from mine. Oh well...for all I know, maybe she was chosen by IGN because of her experience with the MGS franchise, but that's about it, since her knowledge about the Metal Gear series' themes, undertones, and overall storyline seems rather dubious.

[Image: dct_header_SIGN-300x67.jpg] [Image: ZazzleZodiacs.png]
"The only prayer I will say for you is this : Whatever hell awaits you, it won't be long before you see it."
COD:BO Official Website (with Community forums)
[Image: TwitterIcon.gif] [Image: FacebookIcon.gif] [Image: YouTubeIcon.gif]
QUOTE
03-29-2014, 02:49 PM
Post: #39
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
(03-29-2014 09:50 AM)Elman Wrote:  The argument that MGS4 offers an "extensive database" falls flat since a. Ground Zeroes offers a Backstory section and b. It has the Paz Diary tapes available as soon as you insert the disc.
I guess she's just bitching for the sake of it.

This is entirely irrelevant but i want to ask you, why do you find what happens in ground zeroes (torture, tapes, etc) exploitative?

I'm serious, i can't understand why.

Now bear in mind i was actually diagnosed with sociopathy, so when i mean i can't understand somebodies feelings in regards to this, i'm serious, i think people however are letting their emotions cloud the effectiveness of the scenes in question.

But i would like to hear your stance on it, seeing as i have already seen some of your previous posts Smile.
QUOTE
03-29-2014, 02:52 PM
Post: #40
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
All a videogame journalist has to do is play a videogame haha...
QUOTE
03-29-2014, 03:03 PM
Post: #41
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
(03-29-2014 02:49 PM)Da Vinci Wrote:  
(03-29-2014 09:50 AM)Elman Wrote:  The argument that MGS4 offers an "extensive database" falls flat since a. Ground Zeroes offers a Backstory section and b. It has the Paz Diary tapes available as soon as you insert the disc.
I guess she's just bitching for the sake of it.
Now bear in mind i was actually diagnosed with sociopathy, so when i mean i can't understand somebodies feelings in regards to this, i'm serious, i think people however are letting their emotions cloud the effectiveness of the scenes in question.
I know you weren't inquiring to me, but I think you pretty much answered your own question when you mentioned "people letting their emotions cloud the effectiveness of the scenes in question".....or, more likely, they're letting their emotions get in the way after having experienced what they've seen (and heard, in the case of those cassette-tapes).

I don't think a person has to be a sociopath or psychopath or whatever similar to not rant about what Ground Zeroes has shown.....but I could be wrong.

Still, let Elman answer in the end.

[Image: dct_header_SIGN-300x67.jpg] [Image: ZazzleZodiacs.png]
"The only prayer I will say for you is this : Whatever hell awaits you, it won't be long before you see it."
COD:BO Official Website (with Community forums)
[Image: TwitterIcon.gif] [Image: FacebookIcon.gif] [Image: YouTubeIcon.gif]
QUOTE
03-29-2014, 04:28 PM
Post: #42
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
(03-29-2014 02:49 PM)Da Vinci Wrote:  This is entirely irrelevant but i want to ask you, why do you find what happens in ground zeroes (torture, tapes, etc) exploitative?

Pardon my faulty memory, but when did I say I did?

This is my signature. Like you give a fuck.
QUOTE
03-29-2014, 05:53 PM
Post: #43
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
(03-29-2014 04:28 PM)Elman Wrote:  
(03-29-2014 02:49 PM)Da Vinci Wrote:  This is entirely irrelevant but i want to ask you, why do you find what happens in ground zeroes (torture, tapes, etc) exploitative?

Pardon my faulty memory, but when did I say I did?

Yeah I was wondering that too.
QUOTE
03-29-2014, 08:33 PM (This post was last modified: 03-29-2014 08:34 PM by Da Vinci.)
Post: #44
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
(03-29-2014 04:28 PM)Elman Wrote:  Pardon my faulty memory, but when did I say I did?

I might have extrapolated a bit, but i meant regarding what you wrote on that thread you created that was quickly shut down because there was already one up. (About the tapes)

It's unfair to put words in your mouth, i'm sorry Smile
QUOTE
03-29-2014, 08:39 PM
Post: #45
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
(03-29-2014 08:33 PM)Da Vinci Wrote:  I might have extrapolated a bit, but i meant regarding what you wrote on that thread you created that was quickly shut down because there was already one up. (About the tapes)

If you're referring to this, well... that wasn't me.

Quote:It's unfair to put words in your mouth, i'm sorry Smile

Hey, it's okay.

This is my signature. Like you give a fuck.
QUOTE
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)