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What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
03-26-2014, 10:43 AM (This post was last modified: 03-26-2014 10:50 AM by Da Vinci.)
Post: #16
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
I just wanna ask...what about Chico, where are the mentions of Chico being tortured and playing a fucked up voyeur session while watching Paz get messed up?

Is the 12 year old kid not worthy of being mentioned? The same kid who is probably never going to walk again?

Who cares, right?

Edit: Also i was banned for some reason.
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03-26-2014, 11:18 AM
Post: #17
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
Last night I finally decided to listen to all of Chico's tapes, from #1 to #7. Though I think we can conclude that a second bomb was placed in Paz's vagina (or up her ass?), I couldn't catch anything in the audio hinting about this thing I've been hearing for days about "Chico being forced to have sex with Paz". I think in Tape #4 he's being exposed to Paz's nude body, but I couldn't detect anything in that audio either pertaining to being forced into sexual conduct. I detected a hint of references to cunnilingus, but I couldn't hear anything to conclude that he may've, well, tasted her in some way.
I didn't hear anything that sounded like rape. I was hearing whipping sounds; it sounded more like Paz was being smacked around. I read on the Wikia last night that she is supposedly gang-raped, but I can't know for certain since I don't hear what could be construed as rape. The audio content sounds more like she is being smacked, slapped, whipped, and other typical methods of physical damage. Her vocalizations while being abused could definitely be construed (or misconstrued?) as something sexual, but that's an inevitability regarding female vocalizations, as per the mindset of most people. Even if a woman in a game is being hit or is dying, it's always going to be labeled as her moaning from sexual pleasure.....plus, realistically, a woman's vocalizations during coitus sometimes sounds like pain, but that's where one must know how to differentiate.

Whatever the case, those tapes were...um.....interesting to listen to. Can't think of a proper description without sounding like a sick fuck. Of course what's going on with Paz is despicable, but that's the point. It's a black site, a type of detention center not bound by any international law, allowing interrogators to use any means necessary to extract information from prisoners or enemy combatants. Plus, what do you think would happen if a beautiful woman such as Paz was subject to the practices that go on in a black site such as that? If it were a man, there wouldn't be any risk of rape (unless the interrogators were that sick in the head to consider implementing GBS). I stand by my opinion of the "sexual violence" in this game as being "a realistic portrayal" of what happens in times, places, and circumstances such as what Ground Zeroes has depicted. But maybe I'm just a passionless, nonchalant bum. Pfft. Think what you will.

(03-26-2014 12:48 AM)nanoMACHINEgun Wrote:  you cant satisy women.
At risk of sounding sexist, this is for the most part true. And now I'm thinking outloud again, due to having just woken up an hour ago, that if you manage to satisfy them, they may become insane. Like that episode of Steve Wilkos "It's Not My Baby, She's Obsessed With Me"; the woman in the first part is a fucking psycho-bitch, and someone said on YouTube that "This is what happens when you expose white girls to the meat!" which sounds about right because the apparent-father of her kids said that she said "no other dude's given her an orgasm like me before," to which she flipped out and attacked him for. Like all people, all women are different, so we can't always generalize....but, let it be a warning to those who try to satisfy them. If they don't go insane, they will probably ditch you because they've nothing more to gain (discarding people after earning their full potential is apparently a thing in human nature....probably most true in the field of business).

(03-26-2014 10:43 AM)Da Vinci Wrote:  I just wanna ask...what about Chico, where are the mentions of Chico being tortured and playing a fucked up voyeur session while watching Paz get messed up?

Is the 12 year old kid not worthy of being mentioned? The same kid who is probably never going to walk again?

Who cares, right?

Edit: Also i was banned for some reason.
Not much about Chico's dilemma is brought to light except for the content in his tapes. His older sister, Amanda, does have an involvement though, saying that she knows when he's lying, and saying that she's "ready for the worst", albeit in a rather upbeat tone. But that's it. Plus the whole thing with the socket in his sternum is a mystery. For all we know maybe he did it himself as a means of retaining his earpieces for easier use of the Walkman when the time would be necessary.
Prior to this game's release I was thinking that Chico was being subject to cybernetic experimentation, and that the hole in his sternum would've been like some battery-charger.....or, rather, an artificial socket to insert the earpiece jack. Why they would do that of all things is unknown to me, but it'll never be known since it doesn't seem like my speculation saw fruition in the game.

I wonder if we'll see Chico in The Phantom Pain. By the time the Ground Zeroes events are finished, I would think he'd have those bolts removed from his 'tendons, but how the 'tendons get fixed is beyond my knowledge because I don't think it's that easy to fix Achilles' tendons....unless they decide to give him cybernetic implants, courtesy of Huey's R&D.
Whatever happens, Chico will be in his early twenties during The Phantom Pain, but who knows if he will be involved in that one....assuming he survived the helicopter crash, of course. If he didn't survive, that would kind of suck because we've lost a character with untapped potential, but I'll get over it.

Oh, and why did you get banned?

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03-26-2014, 03:18 PM (This post was last modified: 03-26-2014 03:25 PM by Da Vinci.)
Post: #18
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
(03-24-2014 07:36 PM)Elman Wrote:  http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/03/25/w...oes-ending
I think she has a point, but disagree with the notion that Paz had no character development and functioned only as a vehicle for Big Boss' "quest". Didn't she listen to her tapes, for instance?

What point? Nowadays anything can and will be called out as something in the videogame industry, these people don't give TWO FUCKS about gaming, they care more about finding something to complain about than actually praising the direction this game is trying to take.

Of course she didn't listen to the tapes, this woman hasn't played the previous games, but it's okay because they can use the age old "Metal gear is so convoluted" which it IS mind you, but if you can't follow the story of mgs3 and peace walker i have serious concerns for your mental capability.

Look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtJwsm7G60I

See if you can spot the number of errors she makes in the video, legitimate factual errors.

Edit: I also like her quote "And hey, if you disagree with me, if you really feel like your goofy, beloved Metal Gear is better off going down this road, that’s fine too."

Nothing like calling a franchise people love goofy (which it is, but that's irrelevant).

Wonderful way to quell the flames there Lucy.
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03-26-2014, 06:06 PM
Post: #19
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
(03-26-2014 03:18 PM)Da Vinci Wrote:  What point? Nowadays anything can and will be called out as something in the videogame industry, these people don't give TWO FUCKS about gaming, they care more about finding something to complain about than actually praising the direction this game is trying to take.

Of course she didn't listen to the tapes, this woman hasn't played the previous games, but it's okay because they can use the age old "Metal gear is so convoluted" which it IS mind you, but if you can't follow the story of mgs3 and peace walker i have serious concerns for your mental capability.

Look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtJwsm7G60I

See if you can spot the number of errors she makes in the video, legitimate factual errors.

Edit: I also like her quote "And hey, if you disagree with me, if you really feel like your goofy, beloved Metal Gear is better off going down this road, that’s fine too."

Nothing like calling a franchise people love goofy (which it is, but that's irrelevant).

Wonderful way to quell the flames there Lucy.
That's another way the whole SJW movement boils down to. There comes a point where these people basically do as you described....simply looking for one itsy-bitsy little detail to piss and moan about.

Well, I guess the gratuity that MGSV will be portraying isn't necessarily "itsy-bitsy", but I think we were all warned about this stuff, by Kojima-san himself. Under the assumption that the complainers submitted to some prerogative to only look for shit to complain about, they were probably preparing ahead of time after hearing about those warnings.

More and more I think the whole SJW movement has evolved into a business....maybe just a very small one at the moment, but evidently there's profit to be had for ranting about these things. I could be wrong, though; just because Ms. Sarkeesian is making money off of her "work" doesn't always mean all others similar to her role are either.

Oh, and somewhat related to Ms. O'Brien's article....what's this thing about Paz lacking character development? What significant need for her's is necessary when Peace Walker portrayed it? If anything, her portrayal in Ground Zeroes also signifies the series transitioning to a much darker tone; Peace Walker was comparatively upbeat, and even though Paz was a spy all along, her existence contributed to Peace Walker's light-hearted tone (among other things like.....a banana for a weapon, occasional divergent information in various weapons' descriptions, Chico, Chico's fascination with UMA's, that part in the game where you can cook a ration, et cetera....maybe the fact that the game was rated T, too). Not to mention that the Metal Gear series has quite often been dark and gloomy, taking into account a lot of themes it explores (and, on a personal note, some background music featured in the games). MGSV is simply taking this dark theme to a new level....and I've already stated my opinion on the matter (that I'm quite compliant with the direction it's going), so I won't repeat myself for now.
Oh and.....Metal Gear? Goofy? Now that's interesting. The series has its fair share of strange moments, even comical moments, but last I checked, this series is anything but goofy. I guess maybe people can say the series is goofy when comparing it to the obvious franchises like COD and BF; people will make those comparisons because Metal Gear is heavily military-themed, though they need to understand (which they'll probably choose not to) that the Metal Gear series has never been a military simulator.

I could go on here but I won't. I want to go back and try to asS-rank those missions on GZ...

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03-26-2014, 08:12 PM
Post: #20
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
(03-26-2014 06:06 PM)Old Gross Wrote:  Oh and.....Metal Gear? Goofy? Now that's interesting. The series has its fair share of strange moments, even comical moments, but last I checked, this series is anything but goofy. I guess maybe people can say the series is goofy when comparing it to the obvious franchises like COD and BF; people will make those comparisons because Metal Gear is heavily military-themed, though they need to understand (which they'll probably choose not to) that the Metal Gear series has never been a military simulator.

I could go on here but I won't. I want to go back and try to asS-rank those missions on GZ...

I call it goofy in the good way, the one thing people can't deny is that the metal gear series has personality, there's atleast 3 or 4 people per game that stick out in your memory.

Never mind the fact you get things like the peace walker tapes that make these characters feel so full with personality (The big bad of the mgs series, Zero for example is a James Bond fanatic who says hilarious things like "To tell you the truth, I don't like the idea of playing hanky-panky with enemy femme fatales, either. But that's part of Bond's appeal. You could learn a thing or two from him.")

The fact that Big Boss is afraid of vampires, believes in Santa, etc.

They really are the things most of us grew up loving, which is also why we love this franchise.
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03-27-2014, 05:59 AM
Post: #21
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
(03-26-2014 08:12 PM)Da Vinci Wrote:  
(03-26-2014 06:06 PM)Old Gross Wrote:  Oh and.....Metal Gear? Goofy? Now that's interesting. The series has its fair share of strange moments, even comical moments, but last I checked, this series is anything but goofy. I guess maybe people can say the series is goofy when comparing it to the obvious franchises like COD and BF; people will make those comparisons because Metal Gear is heavily military-themed, though they need to understand (which they'll probably choose not to) that the Metal Gear series has never been a military simulator.

I could go on here but I won't. I want to go back and try to asS-rank those missions on GZ...

I call it goofy in the good way, the one thing people can't deny is that the metal gear series has personality, there's atleast 3 or 4 people per game that stick out in your memory.

Never mind the fact you get things like the peace walker tapes that make these characters feel so full with personality (The big bad of the mgs series, Zero for example is a James Bond fanatic who says hilarious things like "To tell you the truth, I don't like the idea of playing hanky-panky with enemy femme fatales, either. But that's part of Bond's appeal. You could learn a thing or two from him.")

The fact that Big Boss is afraid of vampires, believes in Santa, etc.

They really are the things most of us grew up loving, which is also why we love this franchise.

Well yeah; perhaps I was wording it the wrong way. The Metal Gear series to me isn't so much goofy as it is full of personality; sorry to repeat your words but it just sounds more spot on to me than "goofy". Maybe if having personality is what makes it "goofy" then that kind of says something about the mindset of the mainstream....maybe if the game was bland, it wouldn't be considered "goofy". How sad is that.

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03-27-2014, 06:15 AM (This post was last modified: 03-27-2014 06:15 AM by Ex-President.)
Post: #22
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
A series that has had constant political commentary and anti-war messages, with Metal Gear Solid possibly being the first example of the videogame medium to have such themes, can't be summed up as "goofy".
There are goofy things here and there in the games that most of the time serve as comedic relief, though.


Still IGN doesn't know what the fuck it's talking about and most of its "writers/reviewers" are foul examples what's wrong in gamers today. Not supporting the evolution of the art medium you supposedly represent is mindblowing in a bad way.

Everyone should just shut up for a second.
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03-27-2014, 06:59 AM
Post: #23
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
I Got Nothing.com Usually cannot be taken too seriously. I don't understand this whole SJW soapbox thing and I probably never will because I can't relate to it. But a simple google search reveals that many men are upset about the content aswell, to it's not just women.

To quote Mr. Wolfe "They want a soapbox, not a workdesk"

MEN BECOME MUFFINS
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03-27-2014, 08:05 AM (This post was last modified: 03-27-2014 09:56 AM by Da Vinci.)
Post: #24
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
(03-27-2014 06:59 AM)Punished Pastry Wrote:  I Got Nothing.com Usually cannot be taken too seriously. I don't understand this whole SJW soapbox thing and I probably never will because I can't relate to it. But a simple google search reveals that many men are upset about the content aswell, to it's not just women.

To quote Mr. Wolfe "They want a soapbox, not a workdesk"

Either a good amount of people have turned sociopathic in the past 2 years or so, or people have willingly pussyfied themselves.

Don't believe me?

Look at this: http://www.joystiq.com/2013/03/11/contro...pcoming-p/

Or this: http://kotaku.com/game-developers-really...724616/all (Like the part where the "journalist" calls an artist a "14 year old boy"?)

Or this one, where you can see the hypocrisy by one of these people: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-1...ontroversy
("Bartholow said a gamer approached him at game show Gamescom earlier this year just to tell him Skullgirls was sexist."
"I'm like, did you know our lead animator is a woman? Then he's like, that's amazing. It's like I gave him the excuse to think it was okay all of a sudden, or to admit he liked it, which really amused me and seemed emblematic of the entire situation around that.")

And finally this: http://www.usgamer.net/articles/yes-cast...mfortable-

There is NO defending this, this is RETARDED, i CHALLENGE anyone to tell me people don't blow things out of proportion nowadays.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg, there are way more where these came from.
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03-27-2014, 08:37 AM
Post: #25
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
Quote:people have willingly pussyfied themselves

It has been increasing for the last 20 years. It's getting worse.

Everyone should just shut up for a second.
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03-27-2014, 09:02 AM
Post: #26
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
(03-25-2014 10:27 PM)Solidsuitlarry Wrote:  She on one hand claims to have played all the other MGS games then on the other bitches about the lack of character development for Paz claiming that she has to consider GZ at face value and that not many people would have experienced the back story.
It's funny too, cause in the podcast she was saying that she had recently been replaying the entire series to refresh her memory of the story, but she specifically said she had only played a little bit of Peace Walker before moving on because she had "fairly recently" played through it and felt that she remembered the story pretty well. Apparently not, since she's acting like Paz and Chico have no character development whatsoever. I'm just amused that this whole thing came up literally 2 days after I had listened to that particular podcast, and I specifically listened to it because of the Ground Zeroes content, since I'm not subscribed to any of IGN's podcasts.

On the other hand, GameInformer also did a Special Edition MGS podcast where the guy who reviewed GZ was talking about how big of a MGS fan he is, but seemed to not have much knowledge of the story, continually getting confused about fairly straightforward plot elements. Also saying that he prefers to play the games stealthily and going for no-kill runs. He then went on to give the game a 7/10, saying that it's boring and not action packed. Well no fucking shit.

The reviewers are really bugging me, since most of the people deriding GZ are people who heralded MGS4 as one of the greatest games ever after playing it once. I'll admit, the first time I played through MGS4 I loved it. The next playthrough is when I started noticing all of the plot cop-outs and how much the game fell apart after act 2. Now I only play the first two acts and can't seem to muster up the will to play past that. I'd give acts 1&2 a 9/10 and the rest a 5/10.

Ground Zeroes, on the other hand, is nearly perfect to me. It feels like a return to form for Kojima and quickly eased away any doubt I had about TPP.

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03-27-2014, 10:11 AM
Post: #27
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
(03-25-2014 10:27 PM)Solidsuitlarry Wrote:  She on one hand claims to have played all the other MGS games then on the other bitches about the lack of character development for Paz claiming that she has to consider GZ at face value and that not many people would have experienced the back story.

So going by that logic,jumping into Halo 4 without having played previous games and not knowing wtf is going on is a failure on part of the game designers, not on me right?

Maybe jumping into the third chronological entry in a series is not the best of ideas without knowing things beforehand?

What do i know though, there was one guy who was complaining that ground zeroes provided exposition in a terrible manner, apparently oblivious to the fact that a RECAP differs from EXPOSITION.
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03-27-2014, 10:41 AM
Post: #28
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
I'd really like to hear what Adam Sessler has to say about the whole deal. He seems like a pretty smart dude. Given they probably will not touch on the subject because of loosing viewers to Rev3 or whatever it's called.

MEN BECOME MUFFINS
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03-27-2014, 01:23 PM
Post: #29
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
(03-27-2014 10:41 AM)Punished Pastry Wrote:  I'd really like to hear what Adam Sessler has to say about the whole deal. He seems like a pretty smart dude.

I don't want to be the cynic here, but this "smart dude" is the same person who actually brought the "god of war ascension trophy controversy" to the spotlight by being offended.

Let me clarify, a grown man got offended over the name of a ps3 TROPHY.
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03-27-2014, 08:42 PM
Post: #30
RE: What's Wrong with Ground Zeroes' Ending? (IGN) (Spoilers)
(03-27-2014 08:37 AM)Punished President Wrote:  
Quote:people have willingly pussyfied themselves
It has been increasing for the last 20 years. It's getting worse.
I'm a victim of it myself. Sorry to say that I run the risk of being a hypocrite; I try to be a tough guy about things, but
[WUSSIFICATION PROPAGANDA]
once you learn the truth, there's no turning back.....or have I been conditioned by all sorts of media to believe that? Well, maybe, but it also deals with personal experience. What most people call "low self-esteem" and "low confidence" could actually be "experience". Maybe it all depends on the individual; being wussified is one thing, but if you are to be strong, you have to maintain it by any & all means necessary, and if you break, there may be no redemption, because you were being the tough guy and now your shell is broken and everybody is mocking you for it....to them, you have become a pathetic loser. Otherwise, even if you continue to maintain your strength, it is a path with no end.
[WUSSIFICATION PROPAGANDA]
...actually, despite my own personal issues, I have no reason to be affected by what a videogame portrays. In fact, in Black Ops, Black Ops 2, and BF4, I occasionally saw Swastika emblems. Apparently the Swastika emblems were about as big a deal as the penis emblems. We as players have the option to report these emblems....but I don't. Not only do I have nothing to gain from reporting emblems, but it's also my sense of respect towards others.....yes, even people with a symbol representing the ultimate evil known to Mankind. Of course I never communicate with them either, but that's because I'm asocial.

Anyway, I've said it a dozen times already that I have no qualms about what MGSV is going to portray. Maybe it's easy for me to say so because I'm a life-long gamer, 29 years of age to boot, and I can differentiate things and decide for myself if something's just being thrown in for shock value or not....though, a lot of it could have to do with blunted affect, but nevermind that. Sadly, that's just me, and there's nobody else like me....not trying to sound arrogant or anything, because the rest of you here in the 'Soup have your shit together and know what's going on, but it's just me, you guys, compared to the millions of others in the gaming community, plenty of whom happen to be involved in "journalism" and blogging, dozens of them happening to be quite influential and conditioning us on how to think and react to what we see in videogames....the current fad of this agenda dealing with sexism, misogyny, and the overall portrayal of women in videogames, as well as how nothing's good enough for them in the long run.

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