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Were GZ trailer scenes repurposed in TPP?
05-03-2016, 01:54 PM
Post: #1
Were GZ trailer scenes repurposed in TPP?
On MetalGearInformer, in the Disqus comments section, one user 'JJBYACHFullOptions2FucKonami' had an interesting post I thought I'd share here.

He suspects that cutscenes we'd seen in previous TPP trailers where prisoners are executed in the GZ prison area, might in fact have simply been scenes from interrogations we discover in missions where we must tail and listen to conversations between soldiers and captured prisoners.

He believes the animation work is the same and that these were simply emphasized as cutscenes in the trailer or cleverly repurposed later in TPP from cut content that Kojima might've wanted concerning the GZ map in TPP.

I think he's got a point. It's be no problem for Kojima to have simply moved the camera in cinematically to emphasize these mini-portions of the game in his trailer for what would've been average rescue-the-prisoner/listen-to-convo stock animation cycles.

Red Band E3 trailer, interrogation & shooting scenes:
https://youtu.be/y-c1a5c55-8?t=1m7s

In game interrogation scenes:
https://youtu.be/JJYE-I1BrlA

In game interrogating leading to shooting scene:
https://youtu.be/rSweTCD2PmY
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05-05-2016, 03:57 PM
Post: #2
RE: Were GZ trailer scenes repurposed in TPP?
There's also the shot of Snake looking out the chopper at mother base that showed up in MGSV trailer's but only shows up in flashback in TPP.
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05-12-2016, 02:40 PM
Post: #3
RE: Were GZ trailer scenes repurposed in TPP?
I mean, look at the whole beginning of the Nuclear trailer. It made us think Venom was involved in some sort of massacre in Africa, but the animation work was actually used in "Shining Lights, Even in Death." The same being true for those executions wouldn't surprise me.

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Broken bones require different treatment than an infection does
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PSN ID: DeadByDagger
Gamertag: xDeadByDaggerx
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05-12-2016, 04:49 PM (This post was last modified: 05-12-2016 04:49 PM by DarthCaligula.)
Post: #4
RE: Were GZ trailer scenes repurposed in TPP?
Too bad he wasn't involved in a massacre in Africa, since that's the sort of thing Big Boss is supposed to do. I really wish we had gotten a "Big Boss the war criminal" game, and see all the idiot Big Boss fanboys try to defend him after that.
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05-13-2016, 04:29 PM
Post: #5
RE: Were GZ trailer scenes repurposed in TPP?
To be fair, because of the nature of how the game was made, every person could have a completely different experience. For me, I remember my Venom being wary of violence at first, but slowly gaining an ego as his army was built up further. By the end of the game, I was slaughtering everybody, only allowing those who I felt were good enough for my army to live.

I felt the same way you do for a while before I realized "Oh shit... how big of a monster Big Boss is was all on me." And I feel like that's one of the subtleties Kojima aimed for with this.

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Broken bones require different treatment than an infection does
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PSN ID: DeadByDagger
Gamertag: xDeadByDaggerx
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05-15-2016, 09:55 PM
Post: #6
RE: Were GZ trailer scenes repurposed in TPP?
I felt the pressure to complete the game before the next Konami update took more of my offline GMP online. With the world hunting you there's no time to waste and you're soon just killing everybody.
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05-20-2016, 09:05 PM
Post: #7
RE: Were GZ trailer scenes repurposed in TPP?
I embraced what I think of as the real Big Boss, what we see in Metal Gear 2, so I pretty much played as a stealthy killer, limiting myself by never using the tranq gun except to capture some animals for those side ops. If I was caught, I'd usually end up turning the area into a war zone, leaving bodies everywhere and just slaughtering the enemy. And so yes, my horn grew very quickly.
Since beating it, I've been trying to get better ranks and to do those optional side things in the missions, and since watching Ravi's newest video, I've also decided to embrace the more Solid Snake way of doing things, and trying to be less like Big Boss, slowly trying to lower my demon rank.
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05-21-2016, 06:00 AM
Post: #8
RE: Were GZ trailer scenes repurposed in TPP?
I embraced what I think is the essence of the Hutus & Tutsis.

I threw a bunch of Child Soldiers into a jeep covered in C4, bailed just before driving it off a cliff, and detonated it mid-air.

My only regret is that Chico wasn't alive to be in it.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
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05-25-2016, 05:56 PM (This post was last modified: 05-25-2016 05:58 PM by YEAH.)
Post: #9
RE: Were GZ trailer scenes repurposed in TPP?
(05-12-2016 04:49 PM)DarthCaligula Wrote:  Too bad he wasn't involved in a massacre in Africa, since that's the sort of thing Big Boss is supposed to do. I really wish we had gotten a "Big Boss the war criminal" game, and see all the idiot Big Boss fanboys try to defend him after that.

Here's a thought I had recently: would it really make sense for Big Boss to do undeniably villainous things at this point? After all, he's idolized and seen as a hero by soldiers all over the world. Not to mention being the commander of FOXHOUND, who are supposedly 'the good guys' at this point. I guess you could say the Outer Heaven Uprising was the point Big Boss broke bad, though he is clearly on his way there in Peace Walker.

Frank Jaeger and Kyle Schneider, as well as the refugees and war orphans at Zanzibar idolized him as a hero for 'saving' them, but in reality Big Boss' speech to David reveals that they are little more than fuel in his cycle of never ending warfare, he's just using them for his own gain, no different from Venom in TPP.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't David the only one who knew the truth about how much of a batshit crazy warmonger Big Boss really was? As Otacon mentions in MGS4, Big Boss became a symbol of pop culture after his file was declasified. 'A war criminal, reinvented as a hero'.

YEAH, I'M BIG BOSS
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05-25-2016, 10:20 PM
Post: #10
RE: Were GZ trailer scenes repurposed in TPP?
I actually see that part in MGS4 sort of speaking for us old school fans. Snake represents those of us who actually played the first two games, or at least Metal Gear 2, and know what Big Boss was really like. In a way, Meryl kind of represents those who've played MGS1, but not the earlier ones, knowing Snake's a hero, but not all of it, and Raiden is kind of like those who came in with MGS2.

And what you also said is pretty much my point. We don't actually see Big Boss as the asshole he really is, so the Big Boss fanboys can keep on thinking he's a real hero.
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05-26-2016, 03:24 AM (This post was last modified: 05-26-2016 03:24 AM by Canucklehead.)
Post: #11
RE: Were GZ trailer scenes repurposed in TPP?
MG1 & 2 aren't even canon. Solid Snake is the series' true villain because he killed the series' protagonist in some BS backstory somewhere, just like when Sephiroth turned that flower girl into a goddamned kabob.

MGS4's ending mimics the US justice system, where only the small-fish get fried and the REAL bad guys get away with murder.

So damn profound!

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
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05-26-2016, 09:53 AM
Post: #12
RE: Were GZ trailer scenes repurposed in TPP?
That's sort of the point I've been making, that the first two games aren't canon anymore. Perhaps the IDEA of those games happened, but so much has changed that it's impossible for Metal Gear 2 as it is to actually fit with the rest of the series from MGS4 on. So this is a problem now with the series. There is no point in focusing on the facts in the games, any certain lines, or really anything specific. Did you like Snake's pleading with Gustava/Nastasha to keep on living, talking about how the ice of the Cold War was finally starting to melt? Well it couldn't have happened now. McDonald Miller? That's not his name anymore. The US Philosophers renamed themselves The Patriots? Nope, now The Patriots were Big Boss, Zero, and the rest of the main cast of Snake Eater. How can anyone possibly take anything seriously in this series anymore?
Pretty much, it seems that each game in the series is only consistent with the game that came immediately before. Playing Metal Gear Solid again after playing Metal Gear 2, I noticed certain lines in the game that directly referenced it, like when Solid Snake says that the threat of nuclear war ended with the turn of the millennium. Metal Gear Solid 2 of course makes a ton of references to Metal Gear Solid. Snake Eater is more consistent with MGS2, though it also mostly works with MGS1 and hell, doesn't even completely contradict the first two games. Then we get MGS4, where pretty much every game except MGS3 is retconned, like Snake and Otacon saying that the Cold War ended in the early 90's clearly contradicting Metal Gear 2. Peace Walker builds on what was established in MGS4, while also respecting MGS3, doing things like retconning Big Boss's age, which was mentioned in MGS2 and throwing giant mechs around in the 70's, and MGS5 mostly stays consistent with Peace Walker, introducing a Metal Gear far more advanced than anything else we see in the series, yet no one knows a thing about in the games that take place later on, just to name one thing.
I used to be a more serious fan, but then MGS4 ruined it for me. After getting pissed about it, the things Ravi and Mr. Wolfe talked about gave me a different way to think about it. So pretty much, I consider the first four games to be one story, and everything else after to be something else, just so I don't get pissed about how nothing matches us anymore, and I also mostly view MGS3 on as mostly being Kojima telling stories that are metaphors for how he feels, which makes them all make a hell of a lot more sense.

Looking back on it, I think what would have worked best for MGS4 would be to have it start kind of like what we got, a continuation of what we see in MGS2, but then make everything get more and more absurd, eventually reaching the point where there is no sense whatsoever anymore, all of it finally culminating in us actually fighting something like Genola, smashing through a city, and then it ends with us just suddenly being thrown into a scene with Raiden being pulled out of a VR machine, with people talking around him about the experiment being a success, and we find out that everything since the Tanker Chapter in MGS2 was fake. Now THAT would have been an ending no one would forget.
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05-26-2016, 01:42 PM
Post: #13
RE: Were GZ trailer scenes repurposed in TPP?
I'm with you on MGS3 onwards being metaphors for how Kojima feels. MGS4, an old man tired of war forced out of retirement for one last job. Peace Walker I'm not sure about, he seemed to enjoy himself making that game but the way he absolutely destroys everything in MGSV, Mother Base, leaving most the cast as either dead or empty husks of their former selves is unsettling.

MGSV felt to me like Kojima was getting the last laugh, it feels very reminiscent of MGS2 where you play a rainy, two hour at most prologue and by the time you get into the main event, you aren't playing as the character you thought you were, except it isn't revealed until the end and nullifies everything that you've done until that point. Mother Base feels like it was deliberately evoking memories of the Big Shell. Even the sudden use of roman numerals reminds me of how MGS2 was originally going to be called MGS III. Except you never get to meet the real Snake, Big Boss or whatever. There are no inspiring words of encouragement, telling you to think for yourself, be your own person. You've been a decoy this entire time, nothing you did amounted to anything, you're just being used to spread another man's legend. You're Big Boss, isn't that great! (despite Ocelot reminding us not five minutes later that there is only room for one Boss.)

YEAH, I'M BIG BOSS
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05-26-2016, 05:47 PM
Post: #14
RE: Were GZ trailer scenes repurposed in TPP?
I don't agree with everything Mr. Wolfe says, but I think he makes a good point about how in Peace Walker, MSF starts off as something small, which Big Boss seems to want to keep kind of small, but keeps growing bigger and bigger, becoming far more than he ever expected, which could be a metaphor for how Kojima felt about Metal Gear itself. He's made it quite clear from MGS2 on that he wanted to move on from the series, but each game was his "final Metal Gear". Personally, I think the reason he kept going with it has to do with a very Japanese sense of loyalty. Metal Gear sold well, so he kept going with it because it was good for his company, Konami. It makes the criticism of the idea of "Loyalty to the end" pretty interesting.
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05-27-2016, 04:02 AM
Post: #15
RE: Were GZ trailer scenes repurposed in TPP?
You guys are giving him way too much credit. He's not a prophet, he's not deeply profound. He needs to outdo the bullshit he came up with in the previous game, and by Snake Eater, the bullshit meter had aready reached critical levels.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
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