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New editorial about Ground Zeroes [spoilers]
04-05-2014, 09:37 AM (This post was last modified: 04-05-2014 05:19 PM by Nike Schneider.)
Post: #1
New editorial about Ground Zeroes [spoilers]
http://thesnakesoup.org/editorial-articl...antom-pain

First editorial I've written and actually published in over two years.

(05-22-2016 02:42 PM)Canucklehead Wrote:  The actual hero of Metal Gear is the player for putting up with all of its bullshit over the years.
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04-05-2014, 12:24 PM (This post was last modified: 04-05-2014 12:34 PM by Neo Heaven.)
Post: #2
RE: New editorial about Ground Zeroes
Good article, pretty spot-on on the story aspects. It's why I'm a bit adamant about being overly critical of how they "explored" the taboo themes because we don't know how exactly they may play out during Phantom Pain or if it really is all just meaningless shock value. But that's really the issue, isn't it? GZ being meant to supplement TPP makes it stand on its own less than it should've.

Ah, we can only hope. Time will tell.
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04-05-2014, 01:05 PM
Post: #3
RE: New editorial about Ground Zeroes
Surprised you didn't mention enemy soldiers' tranquilized bodies disappearing and then reappearing just because the game can't handle too many at the same area.

Everyone should just shut up for a second.
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04-05-2014, 04:01 PM
Post: #4
RE: New editorial about Ground Zeroes
(04-05-2014 01:05 PM)Punished President Wrote:  Surprised you didn't mention enemy soldiers' tranquilized bodies disappearing and then reappearing just because the game can't handle too many at the same area.

Is that only on older gen or PS4/XBone too?
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04-05-2014, 05:25 PM (This post was last modified: 04-05-2014 05:28 PM by Nike Schneider.)
Post: #5
RE: New editorial about Ground Zeroes [spoilers]
I did not notice the disappearing bodies.

(04-05-2014 12:24 PM)Neo Heaven Wrote:  But that's really the issue, isn't it? GZ being meant to supplement TPP makes it stand on its own less than it should've.

Yeah. I haven't gotten that many responses to this one (more so for the myth article a few weeks ago) but a few were basically saying I'll have my "foot in my mouth" when The Phantom Pain releases. Which is funny because I address this in the editorial.

I Wrote:The seemingly pointlessness of the absurd grim actions depicted in Ground Zeroes’ plot both in the tapes and the ending may just be a symptom of its shortness. I sincerely hope this is the case and that themes and “taboo” issues are expressed in a more meaningful fashion in The Phantom Pain. Perhaps The Phantom Pain will even give meaning to the issues I had with Ground Zeroes. Regardless, Ground Zeroes is a stand-alone title and it suffers as a result of this.

If Chico survived the crash it's entirely possible that the sexual assault will be brought up. Maybe it will be done so in a thought-out way. Great. Thing is, you cannot tell me Ground Zeroes was not released as its own title. As such, I cannot praise Ground Zeroes for it, but can only criticize for it being meaningless. Likewise because of the way they handled it in Ground Zeroes, I'm not sure if they will be able to handle it in The Phantom Pain. Hence, "worried."

Considering that so many people after experiencing Ground Zeroes basically gave an applause to Kojima for such a "dark" and "mature" storyline more or less means these people think how these things were handled in Ground Zeroes was good enough. That and the vagina bomb is actually a good twist.

(05-22-2016 02:42 PM)Canucklehead Wrote:  The actual hero of Metal Gear is the player for putting up with all of its bullshit over the years.
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04-05-2014, 05:50 PM
Post: #6
RE: New editorial about Ground Zeroes [spoilers]
Not played GZ yet and don't care about spoilers but do they actually say Paz had a bomb up her clacker or is it just that she had another bomb inside her and everyone is assuming "Must have been in her pussy"?

I mean in MGS1 a lot of people seem to assume that Meryl stuck the Pal key in her twat but I always just assumed it was in her cleavage.
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04-05-2014, 06:09 PM
Post: #7
RE: New editorial about Ground Zeroes [spoilers]
I too thought Meryl had it in her cleavage.

[Spoilers here on] In this case though it's pretty clear that if it wasn't inserted into her vagina it was probably inserted into her anus. In the final cutscene Paz says "there is another... in my..." In one of the tapes, after inserting the first bomb Skull Face says something along the lines of "Good, now for the other one... yeah they'll never look for it here!"

(05-22-2016 02:42 PM)Canucklehead Wrote:  The actual hero of Metal Gear is the player for putting up with all of its bullshit over the years.
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04-05-2014, 06:34 PM
Post: #8
RE: New editorial about Ground Zeroes [spoilers]
lol jesus.

Could it have simply been in her womb however? I mean that's pretty fucked up too and wouldn't require any bomb-fisting.

Then again it'd leave scars...I don't know.
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04-06-2014, 01:09 PM
Post: #9
RE: New editorial about Ground Zeroes [spoilers]
In the tape it takes the guy about 5 seconds to insert the bomb and the fleshy sounds spell out vagina.
About the disappearing bodies, I'm on PS3.

Everyone should just shut up for a second.
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04-06-2014, 01:16 PM
Post: #10
RE: New editorial about Ground Zeroes [spoilers]
(04-05-2014 05:25 PM)Punished Singh Wrote:  If Chico survived the crash it's entirely possible that the sexual assault will be brought up. Maybe it will be done so in a thought-out way. Great. Thing is, you cannot tell me Ground Zeroes was not released as its own title. As such, I cannot praise Ground Zeroes for it, but can only criticize for it being meaningless. Likewise because of the way they handled it in Ground Zeroes, I'm not sure if they will be able to handle it in The Phantom Pain. Hence, "worried."

Considering that so many people after experiencing Ground Zeroes basically gave an applause to Kojima for such a "dark" and "mature" storyline more or less means these people think how these things were handled in Ground Zeroes was good enough. That and the vagina bomb is actually a good twist.

It was handled good enough, when the snuke went off i didn't think "That was dumb" i thought it was smart.

Think about it (knowing Skullface wants to kill Snake), you rescue Paz and the first thing you notice is the huge bloodstain in her shirt around the abdomen area, one would naturally assume to look there to see why there is such a large bloodstain, then they would notice the stitches in her stomach, Snake would feel her up and notice something alien in her stomach, he would remove it and be none the wiser in regards to a second bomb that would undoubtedly kill him later on.

That's comic book villainy material but it's smart and effective when it comes to the villain himself.

In regards to the tapes, i thought they set up an effective villain, it's important not to look at this game through the goggles of reality (like many people wrongly do), it doesn't do it justice to do so, i look at it from the eyes of "Does it make me hate the villain?" yes, "Does it create a dark and oppressive atmosphere?" yes, "Was it done well in that regard?" yes.

The tonal disparity of this game in comparison to previous can be explained by the fact that Kojima doesn't write his games based on consistency (i think he has implied that many times) but rather on what he wants to do and thinks of, this is basically his way of making a new IP while still being tied to working on a metal gear game (given that konami will throw loads of money at him when it comes to making MGS games).

I don't know what people are looking for, does the sexual assault need any more justification other than showing that this guy is unlike previous metal gear villains?

That this guy is not above rape and torture to get what he wants?

I don't know what people want anymore, it's getting increasingly harder to satisfy the desires of the "Socially Conscious" crowd in regards to what they find "tasteful" or not.

I've seen far more gratuitous things in say Breaking Bad than i have seen in Ground Zeroes (Their length is nowhere near comparable but i think my point still stands).

Or how about the GTA V torture scene? Now THAT was gratuitous, and served no overall greater purpose to the plot at hand, compare that to Ground Zeroes where the snuke is want sends Big Boss into a 9 year coma.

The snuke actually serves a narrative purpose, peculiar place or not, it DOES move the story in a forward way.

Or maybe i'm just to emotionally dead to understand, either way.
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04-06-2014, 03:08 PM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2014 03:17 PM by Nike Schneider.)
Post: #11
RE: New editorial about Ground Zeroes [spoilers]
(04-06-2014 01:16 PM)Da Vinci Wrote:  It was handled good enough, when the snuke went off i didn't think "That was dumb" i thought it was smart.

My reaction was similar as when I first saw this ages ago:

[Image: cad-20080602-358b1.jpg]

In short, I laughed. That was not the reaction I was supposed to have, of course. Then again, I guess the bar for intelligent storytelling for myself is set a bit higher than most "gamers."

(04-06-2014 01:16 PM)Da Vinci Wrote:  Think about it (knowing Skullface wants to kill Snake), you rescue Paz and the first thing you notice is the huge bloodstain in her shirt around the abdomen area, one would naturally assume to look there to see why there is such a large bloodstain, then they would notice the stitches in her stomach, Snake would feel her up and notice something alien in her stomach, he would remove it and be none the wiser in regards to a second bomb that would undoubtedly kill him later on.

So why bother with the first bomb to begin with?

(04-06-2014 01:16 PM)Da Vinci Wrote:  That's comic book villainy material but it's smart and effective when it comes to the villain himself.

Never said it was ineffective. I said it was cheap.

(04-06-2014 01:16 PM)Da Vinci Wrote:  In regards to the tapes, i thought they set up an effective villain, it's important not to look at this game through the goggles of reality (like many people wrongly do), it doesn't do it justice to do so, i look at it from the eyes of "Does it make me hate the villain?" yes, "Does it create a dark and oppressive atmosphere?" yes, "Was it done well in that regard?" yes.

I brought up realism because people jump to the "BUT THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO WOMEN IN WAR!" argument or the "they're talking about Gitmo guys!" even though vaginabomb has yet to occur in reality, let alone documented at Guantanamo Bay.

(04-06-2014 01:16 PM)Da Vinci Wrote:  The tonal disparity of this game in comparison to previous can be explained by the fact that Kojima doesn't write his games based on consistency (i think he has implied that many times) but rather on what he wants to do and thinks of, this is basically his way of making a new IP while still being tied to working on a metal gear game (given that konami will throw loads of money at him when it comes to making MGS games).

I don't even have a problem with MGSV being dark. It's just that Kojima openly stated he's trying to push storytelling in videogaming. What Ground Zeroes has done is basically utilize horror film elements. It's merely one step better than that of Shadow the Hedgehog which, too, threw in shit just to be dark and edgier.

(04-06-2014 01:16 PM)Da Vinci Wrote:  I don't know what people are looking for, does the sexual assault need any more justification other than showing that this guy is unlike previous metal gear villains?

That this guy is not above rape and torture to get what he wants?

So what is he going to do in The Phantom Pain? Devour the eyes of slain orphans?

(04-06-2014 01:16 PM)Da Vinci Wrote:  I don't know what people want anymore, it's getting increasingly harder to satisfy the desires of the "Socially Conscious" crowd in regards to what they find "tasteful" or not.

...what the fuck are you going on about? This is about good storytelling. The Phantom Pain may outright depict genocide as "race" will play a role. Is genocide "socially conscious"? Of course not! War is not socially conscious despite many who claim to be actually being the ones pushing for it. The thing is, Metal Gear has actually portrayed war with a proper narrative.

How does Ground Zeroes portray sexual assault? Poorly, as it is merely used to make the villain (who already fucking looks like a typical villain for fuck's sake) that much more sinister. Can The Phantom Pain do a good job with genocide (or race issues, for that matter)? I sure hope so, but based on what we were given in Ground Zeroes I see them simply using it to make Skull Face, Big Boss, Kaz, or whoever a racist asshole to make the audience not like them. It's the equivalent of Godwin's law.

(04-06-2014 01:16 PM)Da Vinci Wrote:  I've seen far more gratuitous things in say Breaking Bad than i have seen in Ground Zeroes (Their length is nowhere near comparable but i think my point still stands).

Have I ever praised Breaking Bad? I actually enjoy it and found it fun to watch, but yes, plenty of stupid shit in it. The cartel twins were probably the worst things in it, and that finale was clearly put together for a feel-good ending. If you're bring it up because Kojima mentioned it a few times, take note that Kojima has only watched the first two seasons, which were probably written the best.

(04-06-2014 01:16 PM)Da Vinci Wrote:  Or how about the GTA V torture scene? Now THAT was gratuitous, and served no overall greater purpose to the plot at hand, compare that to Ground Zeroes where the snuke is want sends Big Boss into a 9 year coma.

Have I ever claimed any of the Grand Theft Auto games to involve good storytelling?

(04-06-2014 01:16 PM)Da Vinci Wrote:  The snuke actually serves a narrative purpose, peculiar place or not, it DOES move the story in a forward way.

Or maybe i'm just to emotionally dead to understand, either way.

Yes, and the refrigerator in Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull "actually serves a narrative purpose" too. It's just that it was, well, stupid.

(05-22-2016 02:42 PM)Canucklehead Wrote:  The actual hero of Metal Gear is the player for putting up with all of its bullshit over the years.
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04-06-2014, 03:17 PM
Post: #12
RE: New editorial about Ground Zeroes [spoilers]
Quote:In short, I laughed. That was not the reaction I was supposed to have, of course. Then again, I guess the bar for intelligent storytelling for myself is set a bit higher than most "gamers."

Dunno man, sounds like an immature reaction to me.

Quote:So why bother with the first bomb to begin with?

Skull Face is fucking nuts. The peace symbol on the first bomb was supposed to have an impact on Big Boss even if it was the last thing he saw. (Before getting blown to hell by the second bomb as the plan should have went.)

Everyone should just shut up for a second.
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04-06-2014, 03:20 PM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2014 03:21 PM by Terminento.)
Post: #13
RE: New editorial about Ground Zeroes [spoilers]
Been busy with an architecture project that kept me away from my beloved Soup, but I'll come back here later. I've found out some crazy shit you can pull out in this game that apparently noone has though of yet.

Also, when the doctor explains they have no anesthetics left, why did everybody aboard the chopper forget about Snake's tranquilizer gun? Just so that Paz suffers needlessly some more time?

Not only Metal gear games, all of Kojima's games have had a mix of pretended seriousness with some more light-hearted moments. Yet this one seems serious just for the sake of being serious. I agree with Ravi: I didn't feel it made the game more mature.

Also, everybody is complaining about Shutterland, but I'm more concerned with Big Boss going into Peace Walker cutscene mode. Snake/BB has always been quite chatty, yet he barely utters three phrases in this game. Namely: "Kept you waiting", "Chico, don't fight it", "She's rigged!" Oh, yeah, and "Aaaaaargh!!!"

SpaceByrd Wrote:You're like a mix of Kurt Russell and George Lucas.
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04-06-2014, 03:21 PM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2014 03:23 PM by Nike Schneider.)
Post: #14
RE: New editorial about Ground Zeroes [spoilers]
(04-06-2014 03:17 PM)Punished President Wrote:  Dunno man, sounds like an immature reaction to me.

It's an immature "plot twist" meant to be taken seriously.

(04-06-2014 03:17 PM)Punished President Wrote:  Skull Face is fucking nuts. The peace symbol on the first bomb was supposed to have an impact on Big Boss even if it was the last thing he saw. (Before getting blown to hell by the second bomb as the plan should have went.)

Oh, Skull Face is fucking nuts? Wow Kojima, so deep. Can't wait to see the nutty Skull Face doing random acts of violence in The Phantom Pain now just for the fuck of it. So edgy.

(04-06-2014 03:20 PM)Terminento Wrote:  Also, when the doctor explains they have no anesthetics left, why did everybody aboard the chopper forget about Snake's tranquilizer gun? Just so that Paz suffers needlessly some more time?

Haha we talked about this in another thread but the short of it is that tranquilzer rounds in real life can be lethal and that using them on Paz would have risked her life more so. Its why anesthesia is a medical specialty.

(04-06-2014 03:20 PM)Terminento Wrote:  Also, everybody is complaining about Shutterland, but I'm more concerned with Big Boss going into Peace Walker cutscene mode. Snake/BB has always been quite chatty, yet he barely utters three phrases in this game. Namely: "Kept you waiting", "Chico, don't fight it", "She's rigged!" Oh, yeah, and "Aaaaaargh!!!"

Some of the tapes have him talk more but yeah he's mostly quiet.

(05-22-2016 02:42 PM)Canucklehead Wrote:  The actual hero of Metal Gear is the player for putting up with all of its bullshit over the years.
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04-06-2014, 07:20 PM
Post: #15
RE: New editorial about Ground Zeroes [spoilers]
People don't have miscarriages?
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