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Metal Gear Survive |OT| Quantum OPS [PS4/XB1/PC]
06-18-2017, 04:49 PM
Post: #46
RE: Metal Gear Survive |OT| Quantum OPS [PS4/XB1/PC]
What I mean is, what we see in the game seems more like something that would have been put in as metaphors at a later point in development you'd think. It was so weird in that point between GZ and TPP, with all of us looking at GZ again and seeing these bizarre parallels. MSF would be Kojima Productions, being assaulted by XOF, Konami. Again, the part with the Metal Gear logos being erased, just like how Kojima's name was removed from the cover of TPP. Since GZ was released before this actually happened, I guess Kojima knew what was coming at that point? The direction Konami was taking for the future of their games was likely a big issue when the game was being made, so that could explain a lot of what I was talking about in TPP.
What I mean is that the stuff in GZ is especially interesting, and I guess Kojima had a strong feeling about what was coming for him. The whole thing with erasing the logos is something I find so strange. Maybe there were threats in that nature, removing names from credits, already, and so that's what led to that part in the game.
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06-18-2017, 10:41 PM
Post: #47
RE: Metal Gear Survive |OT| Quantum OPS [PS4/XB1/PC]
Conjecture Conspiracy theory:

A lot of that stuff we saw in trailers with 'BIG BOSS IS WATCHING YOU' and prisoners being locked up and tortured...

Was probably cut out by Konami themselves neutering the game's content that they finally figured was a reflection of themselves.

Kojima in Ground Zeroes and even again in TPP was himself a prisoner that needed to be rescued.

There is also that little mystery where Kojima said we'd return to Camp Omega in TPP and discover something different. Something 'never before done in games.'

That didn't happen, and all some Konami rep would say about that was "Oh lol it was just a multiplayer map!"

I think a lot more is missing from the game than we realize... and I'm not just talking Chapter 3...

Also I found it really strange an irritating that the supposed 'making of MGSV' documentary that was in the collector's ed didn't possess any of the same neat behind-the-scenes stuff of KojiPro that MGS4 had, even if that was only a little. As I feared the fallout might've ruined the documentary content too so that the only thing in there was just a Kojiima circle jerk than anything of the actual game's development outside of the cut chapter 3 content and trailers.
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06-18-2017, 10:49 PM
Post: #48
RE: Metal Gear Survive |OT| Quantum OPS [PS4/XB1/PC]
I really want to know what was planned with the return to Camp Omega. I have a feeling the whole "never done before in games" thing was an exaggeration, but I still would like to know what it was, and it probably would have been interesting at the very least. I remember when I beat the game, and I was confused about how we never went there, so I thought it was some bonus you unlock and went online to look, then I discovered it just wasn't in the game at all. Pisses you off since it was advertised as one of the Ground Zeroes save data connections.
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06-19-2017, 04:21 AM
Post: #49
RE: Metal Gear Survive |OT| Quantum OPS [PS4/XB1/PC]
I returned to Camp Omega when I took Phantom Pain out of my PS3 and put Ground Zeroes back in because that FUCKING DEMO was better than the actual game, and that's something that's never happened with a game before.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
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06-19-2017, 10:15 AM
Post: #50
RE: Metal Gear Survive |OT| Quantum OPS [PS4/XB1/PC]
Overall MGSV carries that idea where there is an ideological split between the creative/ business side. This is shown in the relationship and actions of Venom and Miller. If Venom is also Kojima who is punished and Miller is the blind and lame Konami who grows increasingly paranoid who just wants to make hamburgers for cheap, then this is some cray-cray stuff and Nicholas Winding Refn's comments about Kojima being gaming's Stanley Kubrick wasn't just hyperbole. Kojima probably explained precisely what he was doing to Refn and Del Toro.
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06-19-2017, 12:22 PM
Post: #51
RE: Metal Gear Survive |OT| Quantum OPS [PS4/XB1/PC]
I don't know about Venom Snake being Kojima, the ending makes it very clear that Venom Snake is meant to be the player. It's really hard to say. Maybe Venom Snake is supposed to be some kind of synthesis of Kojima and the player?
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06-22-2017, 02:52 AM (This post was last modified: 06-22-2017 03:02 AM by fgdj2000.)
Post: #52
RE: Metal Gear Survive |OT| Quantum OPS [PS4/XB1/PC]
(06-18-2017 08:28 AM)DarthCaligula Wrote:  Maybe saying it sucked was a bit much, but I can't say it was anything more than mediocre.

It had some issues, like how the bosses could have been introduced not just before their fight (so it would have more of an impact) and how you could spam forward+light attack in order to parry and how the writing of Raiden's character was kind of schizophrenic (giving into Jack the Ripper, but not really).

Overall, I thought it was pretty good, had some of the best boss fights (certainly more worthy of Metal Gear than MGSV) and since Kojima always said it was a "parallel story" and "Platinum Games' interpretation of Metal Gear", I never really held it to the same standards as the other game.

IMO it was the best spin off to Metal Gear and I think a sequel could have worked out its issues and could have been great. However, that's not very likely to happen, since, you know, pachislot machines and Zombie games reusing about 98% of the previous assets...

(06-19-2017 12:22 PM)DarthCaligula Wrote:  I don't know about Venom Snake being Kojima, the ending makes it very clear that Venom Snake is meant to be the player. It's really hard to say. Maybe Venom Snake is supposed to be some kind of synthesis of Kojima and the player?

Yes, Kojima does a lot of Meta-stuff in his games, but you still can read too much into it. I think Venom Snake is the player and Big Boss' speech has kind of two levels: the meta-level is basically Kojima saying "thank you and good bye" to the player, the story level is Big Boss screwing over Venom/ the player (so, also kind of meta). One youtuber (ModernGamer I think) pointed out, that Big Boss' speech is actually pretty manipulative: "[Big Boss] is the two of us together.... thank you, my friend!" - this sounds great until you realize, that Venom Snake will ultimately be discarded by Big Boss as cannon fodder for Solid Snake and the UN strike. It's the same as when a dictator says in a speech "We need each and everyone of you. Only together are we strong and if you ever notice something off about your neighbor, report it, so we can help them and protect the Unity." It sounds nice and reassuring, but ultimately has the sinister intent of turning the people against each other in order to either flush out or silence people speaking out against the government.

Ground Zeroes was more meta with all the Metal Gear logos and how Kaz reacts to them in the Deja-vu and Jamais-vu missions.
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06-23-2017, 11:15 AM
Post: #53
RE: Metal Gear Survive |OT| Quantum OPS [PS4/XB1/PC]
Well I guess this explains what happened?





And just how much did The Phantom Pain earn? I have no idea how to find sales figures, but I'm wondering just how much money Konami ended up making off of it, since I seem to remember reading that the game made far more money back than its cost.
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Yesterday, 06:19 AM (This post was last modified: Yesterday 06:54 AM by fgdj2000.)
Post: #54
RE: Metal Gear Survive |OT| Quantum OPS [PS4/XB1/PC]
(06-23-2017 11:15 AM)DarthCaligula Wrote:  And just how much did The Phantom Pain earn? I have no idea how to find sales figures, but I'm wondering just how much money Konami ended up making off of it, since I seem to remember reading that the game made far more money back than its cost.

I think I read somewhere that it sold about 6 million units... which is okay, but nothing groundbreaking in this day and age. Given that even the Definitive Edition is thrown after you for 20€ this day, I guess, it wasn't that big of a financial success. Then again, Konami doesn't really care anymore. (I mean, how pretentious to advertise the Definitive Experience as 3 Games-in-1?! By that standard MGS2 Substance was like 4-in-1 xD)

(06-18-2017 10:41 PM)jdnation Wrote:  Conjecture Conspiracy theory:

A lot of that stuff we saw in trailers with 'BIG BOSS IS WATCHING YOU' and prisoners being locked up and tortured...

Was probably cut out by Konami themselves neutering the game's content that they finally figured was a reflection of themselves.

Kojima in Ground Zeroes and even again in TPP was himself a prisoner that needed to be rescued.

There is also that little mystery where Kojima said we'd return to Camp Omega in TPP and discover something different. Something 'never before done in games.'

That didn't happen, and all some Konami rep would say about that was "Oh lol it was just a multiplayer map!"

I think a lot more is missing from the game than we realize... and I'm not just talking Chapter 3...

Also I found it really strange an irritating that the supposed 'making of MGSV' documentary that was in the collector's ed didn't possess any of the same neat behind-the-scenes stuff of KojiPro that MGS4 had, even if that was only a little. As I feared the fallout might've ruined the documentary content too so that the only thing in there was just a Kojiima circle jerk than anything of the actual game's development outside of the cut chapter 3 content and trailers.

A brief attempt at reconstructing the development cycle:
Around 2008 Kojima begins working on the FOX Engine, which was supposed to be a highly adaptable, yet very powerful engine to be used in virtually all future Konami games. While working on FOX he also does other projects on the side, like Peace Walker, the HD Collection and a new ZOE game (which was cancelled after the botched ZOE Collection) and Rising (which he outsourced to Platinum eventually).
Around 2011, the FOX engine is more or less nearing completion and Kojima begins working on "Project Ogre", which he says isn't a Metal Gear game and focuses on themes like family. In addition first screenshots of the FOX engine show military and jungle environments, including one playable part where the player character seems to be a child soldier. My guess is, that maybe Project Ogre was supposed to be about child soldiers and maybe would have painted a controversial picture of a unit and their (adult) commander (possibly Big Boss or a Big Boss-like character) acting as a surrogate family. It's not clear if it had any connection to Metal Gear; maybe just a vague connection with only Big Boss as a supporting character. But for whatever reason it was pressed into a (more traditional) Metal Gear mold with the players assuming the role of Big Boss (a.k.a. Venom Snake) yet again.
In the meantime, Konami is gradually pulling away from the Triple-A marked and starts to focus on less costly mobile gaming and pachislot market.
In 2012/2013 Kojima shows of the first gameplay of MGSV, however, he isn't clear on whether Ground Zeroes will be a seperate release or part of MGSV. My guess is, he was pressured to release something for the PS4 launch and Ground Zeroes was cut out of the main game to receive a seperate release. Maybe he was even toying with the idea of not announcing MGSV until the release of Ground Zeroes, but was possible pressured into announcing it earlier. Also, originally Ground Zeroes didn't have a "V" in the title, but that was added to make its connection to MGSV more clear. It's announced for 40$, but after a sh*tstorm the price is reduced to 30$ and the game is released in early 2014.
However, development of the main game is just about to get serious. I remember in late 2014 they announced that only now would they be putting all the systems together. I think at this point Kojima has more frequent clashes with Konami (all speculation on my part), because he needs more time, but Konami doesn't want to extend the 6-year-development (including the FOX Engine) any further. So, Kojima is forced, to cut things out and probably is also pressured to tone some things down (Note: even if Konami clearly has recently adopted some questionable methods, at this point their stance as a company is quite understandible, given that Kojima hasn't really released a big game since MGS4).
Ultimately they close KojiPro during their restructuring and finalize their retreat from the Triple-A market. Kojima finishes the game as best he can and it is released in September 2015, even with some game breaking bugs (using Quiet in Mission 29 caused some crashes I think), but most are fixed and after Kojima leaves Konami's developers continue working on the game, implementing DLC outfits, FOB insurence and enable the player to regain Quiet.
Meanwhile Kojima opens New KojiPro and begins work on Death Stranding. Konami gets some pour developers to create Metal Gear Survive out of assets from MGSV... which will be fairly cheap and since Zombie co-op stuff seems to be fairly popular in Japan, it's the safest move they could make. Also, the powerful and versitile FOX Engine stays property of Konami and will not really be used, as Konami has no more interest in the Triple-A market. The only games coming out these days which use the FOX Engine are PES games and Metal Gear Survive. Oh, and the cutscenes for the MGS3 pachislot, though the animations seem to be taken directly from 2004's Snake Eater (so, only the character models and environments needed to be recreated).

Note: this is all speculation on my part, based on what we saw from various preview events etc. and also some comments.
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