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MGSV: Definitivistence
11-30-2016, 06:41 PM
Post: #31
RE: MGSV: Definitivistence
I swear to fuck, if they had been able to finish the first Soul Reaver, it'd be Game of all Time.

Though I have such mized feeling about it...the gameplay depth got weaker as the series went on, yes, but they were able to do such amazing things with the story, things that actully tied in with the plot from the original Blood Omen and expanded on it without ruining it, unlike a certain other series people tend to talk about on this site.

So while I'd love to have seen a compmeted Soul Reaver, it would have effectively ended the series right there. I'm conflicted, like when you happen to see someone drop their wallet and you're suddenly facing the moral dilemma of either spending the money on drugs or spending it on whores...

;P

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
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11-30-2016, 07:59 PM (This post was last modified: 11-30-2016 08:00 PM by DarthCaligula.)
Post: #32
RE: MGSV: Definitivistence
The artist, Daniel Cabuco, revealed a while ago that there was always going to be a sequel to Soul Reaver. I'm guessing that after Raziel killed Kain and opened the pipes to kill all the other vampires, he would have gone back to the Chronoplast to see what Kain was up to there, and gone back in time, which would have led to something similar to Soul Reaver 2, maybe with a darker ending since Raziel likely wouldn't have had any ally save him from the Reaver. Remember that the Soul Reaver broke on Raziel in the game, and there is no explanation, that's always seemed really weird to me if he was supposed to die at the end, and it turns out that it was going to have a sequel afterall.
LoK is quite impressive for how it kept going on, yet had so few inconsistences. You only really notice them is if you dig deep into the games, like how Turel being Hash'ak'gik was a cool idea, but if you REALLY pay attention to the information on Hash'ak'gik and his cult, you'll see that the Turel thing doesn't actually match up as much as it should. There's also that part where Mortanius gives his "Come to me my undead son" speech at the wrong time. But what's really impressive is how few inconsistences the series ended up with, unlike Metal Gear, which practically got to the point where they'd start retconning information introduced in the same game!
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12-01-2016, 04:15 AM
Post: #33
RE: MGSV: Definitivistence
Kain would have been killed prior to opening the pipes. The red reaver would have been gained after killing him, and it would have broken those big, obviously breakable windows in the cathedral that can't be broken.

After the Oracle's Cave/Chronoplast fight with Kain, you'd gain the ability to shift out of the spectral plane at will, and that ability would let you traverse the obvious ledges outside the Oracle's Cave and reach Dark Eden to face Turel. He'd give you some sort of projectile upgrade, and then from the top of the tower, you'd be able to glide over to Kain's retreat and face him for a final fight. Though you'd first have to kill Arie and gain the yellow reaver, which would then be powerful enough to actually kill Kain unlike the normal blue reaver that couldn't kill him in the Chronoplast.

There was also a boss to gave at the Human Citadel that would have given you a Mind Control ability, so they obviously cut all of the bits that required that from the game as well.

The elemental reavers in SR2 were also originally meant to be in the first game (ala the flame reaver) but were cut and used for the sequel.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
QUOTE
12-01-2016, 04:08 PM (This post was last modified: 12-01-2016 04:09 PM by DarthCaligula.)
Post: #34
RE: MGSV: Definitivistence
Yeah, I know a lot about Legacy of Kain. I've read pretty much everything at The Lost Worlds and have discussed the games to death with fans online. What I mean is that Cabuco actually revealed that there was going to be a sequel to Soul Reaver. Here is the quote, and the source, this quote talking about when the Soul Reaver breaks on Raziel:

"When the scene first played out, I asked Amy why it broke on Raziel. She explained that 'you can't reave your own soul'. That made sense to me. Somehow she had always planned for Raziel to be inside the reaver, and probably would have addressed it in the next game in some meaningful way. There wasn't a different explanation for the Soul Reaver as far as I know."

Source: http://www.dcabdesign.com/forum/viewtopi...nding#p303
Also: http://www.dcabdesign.com/forum/search.p...6&start=20

I know there was another quote where he directly states that Soul Reaver was always going to have a sequel with Raziel traveling into the past, but I can't find it. I really should just read all the stuff he's said about the series some time.
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12-01-2016, 07:55 PM
Post: #35
RE: MGSV: Definitivistence
I dunno. She knew Raziel's soul was in the reaver, but he didn't actually say that there was a sequel planned, just that maybe there could be a sequel.

The original ending did wrap everything up pretty well, so perhaps the original third game would have been a prequel with you playing human Raziel hunting a young Kain and ultimately falling at Kain's hands and the reaver. I'm sure all the time-travel stuff was born from an original sequel idea, but it wouldn't be able to follow the original ending.

Interesting nonetheless.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
QUOTE
12-02-2016, 06:38 PM
Post: #36
RE: MGSV: Definitivistence
But that couldn't happen. In Blood Omen, it's pretty well established that the Sarafan Order is long gone, with Malek being the sole remaining member. In Soul Reaver, it's clear that Raziel and his brothers were Sarafan knights. So this means that Raziel would have been long dead by the time Kain was born. Also, look again at Cabuco's quoting of Amy: "You can't reave your own soul." Raziel remarks on the deranged soul devouring entity in the Soul Reaver, so that means that it's this spirit itself that is feeding on souls, so that means that it's still Raziel. Also, it was foreshadowed in the game at the very beginning. Raziel feeds on souls, and the Elder God says "Become my Soul Reaver. My angel of death." This is likely a personal joke to the Elder God, which he knows Raziel would be completely ignorant of. It's true that Sluagh and Vampire Wraiths also feed on souls, but I think that there's plenty in Soul Reaver itself to show that Raziel was always going to be that spirit in the sword. Also, what was going to happen to Raziel after he opened the pipes? He's killed like all the other Vampires? So what? He'll just go to the Spectral Realm.
I think it's a certainty that in addition to all the dialogue found on the disk by people such as Ben Lincoln, that there are several lines that were written but never recorded. There is a large amount of the story that we can't help but be ignorant of. I personally think it's very likely that Amy Hennig intended for Raziel to realize that he had been used by his new master, the Elder God, and felt frustrated, then he would have wondered just what Kain was up to at the Chronoplast. He doesn't know how to set it, but he notices that Kain has set everything to some specific time, and Raziel goes through, since he doesn't really have any other options, all with the hope that somehow he'll discover the truth behind everything, and we would have gotten something similar to what we see in Soul Reaver 2.
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12-03-2016, 05:46 AM
Post: #37
RE: MGSV: Definitivistence
I only read your first few sentences, said "...oh yeah" and remembered that I don't remember as well as I used to.

Still, she knew Raziel was the reaver when she wrote it, but that's still not confirmation of a sequel. I've never heard of original sequel plans until you mentioned it, and she may have intented to explain Razie being in the reaver in any number of ways. A sequel makes sense, but I don't see how it could exist if all the vampires are finally extinct.

You can definitely see a big shift in tone from SR1 to SR2, where they had to create a new story where it wasn't intented to be. The Elder God goes from a fatherly figure of guidance to being a huge prick with no explanation whatsoever (and Raziel's attitude towards him changes just as abruptly), Kain's & Ariel's entire personalities change, and so forth. Whatever SR2 was, it couldn't have been the original plan.

I also think Defiance is the true sequel to Soul Reaver, whereas SR2 was mainly just exposition to set up the actual plot advancing sequel. Not much really happens in SR2 when you think about it.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
QUOTE
12-03-2016, 06:37 PM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2016 07:31 PM by DarthCaligula.)
Post: #38
RE: MGSV: Definitivistence
Well then go back and read my whole post, because I got into detail about what I think Soul Reaver 2 would have been based on the evidence!

Fartknocker.

Also, there was another mention somewhere by Cabuco where he says Amy told him that the Elder God was always intended to not be the kind benefactor that he at first seems. Everything in the timeline of these games was very well thought out, unlike another series I could mention.

Here we go, I was mistaken, Amy herself said this about Soul Reaver:

"To hit the August ’99 release date, we had to cut the last few levels of the game, and end on a cliffhanger that set up Soul Reaver 2. Originally, Raziel was going to hunt down and destroy all of his former brothers as well as Kain – and then, using his newly-acquired abilities, he would’ve activated the long-dormant pipes of the Silenced Cathedral to wipe out the remaining vampires of Nosgoth with a sonic blast. Only then would he realize that he’d been the Elder God’s pawn all along, that the purging of the vampires had devastating consequences, and that the only way to set things right would be to use Moebius’ time-streaming device to go back in time and alter history (in the sequel)."

Source: http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/10/1...r-secrets/
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12-03-2016, 08:52 PM
Post: #39
RE: MGSV: Definitivistence
That bitch.

Oh well, she had better things to do, like make a game about an Explorer that has no exploration in it.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
QUOTE
12-03-2016, 11:55 PM
Post: #40
RE: MGSV: Definitivistence
What? Now you hate Amy Hennig? And I never did play the Uncharted games since they just didn't look that interesting to me. I feel like I should play them since Amy Hennig was behind them, but I've just never been interested.
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12-04-2016, 08:24 AM
Post: #41
RE: MGSV: Definitivistence
They were fairly bland shootings games mixed with some Prince of Persia platforming and plots & dialogue that were in no way, shape or form in the same league as Legacy of Kain.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
QUOTE
12-04-2016, 01:17 PM
Post: #42
RE: MGSV: Definitivistence
Ah, that's too bad.
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02-28-2017, 11:38 AM
Post: #43
RE: MGSV: Definitivistence
Some pc mods here if people care
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1346305
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02-28-2017, 11:59 AM (This post was last modified: 02-28-2017 01:35 PM by THEND.)
Post: #44
RE: MGSV: Definitivistence
There's a post showing cancelled concept-art.

I would have brought back procure on-site. Then if the player wanted better weapons, he would have to re-calibrate his arms for individual weapons so you could only use one weapon per outing if you played as snake. using partners would give the player the needed strategy and other characters (the kind you capture and use in missions) would make the difference in side ops as the only characters that don't need the engineer for better weapons with fewer limitations based on individual skillsets (combat, medic, etc...).

*edit for spoiling
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02-28-2017, 05:07 PM
Post: #45
RE: MGSV: Definitivistence
Soldiers you injured during extraction lose skill.
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