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Language
06-29-2015, 01:51 PM (This post was last modified: 06-29-2015 01:56 PM by jdnation.)
Post: #1
Language
There are obviously many theme of language in MGSV.

- Language and control of language as a means of control. Orwellian terminology, Public Relations, interpretation of law, sophistry, redefinition of words.

- Extermination of language as a means of eliminating undesirable cultures (notably: the native American people, but it is not only limited to them).



Theme in Gameplay/Story:

- Big Boss loses ability to speak Russian. Attributed to head trauma/amnesia.

- Must recruit language experts via fulton. Necessary for interrogations/intel.

- Code Talker may be a valuable recruit-able asset for our intel team.

- Could Skullface himself be of native origin? Does Code Talker know him?

- Quiet has no tongue and cannot speak.



Unobvious 'language':

- Code. We hear in trailer SFX of what could be morse code/computer noises. Obviously this ties into Code talkers and breakers used in the war. Native languages were used as code by the allies.

- A.I. programming languages. Mathematics and computational code and equations. Could tie into Metal Gear development with Mammal Pod A.I. and perhaps the Patriots.

- 'Language' also exists as code in genetics & biology. Cloning, eugenics.

- Music and film. Emotional communication through sound & visuals. Along with the music, it seems Kojima is also adopting a visual & story approach that is more surreal in its presentation. Realism and reality are overlaid to make way for the emotional and apocalyptic. Big Boss also speaks less. Kojima wanted more body/facial capture to convey emotion which is apparently why he wanted a Hollywood actor.

- Virtual Interactivity. Somewhat in line with the above, but making the viewer more engaged in what h is doing via the medium of video games. Something achieved in MGS2. But now again may also be a return to form in MGSV as the player is placed in the role of Big Boss as a military commander and soldier. Given more freedom of approach in the open mission structure and with an Open-world dynamic. The transition of Metal Gear into the Open World may not simply be just a game play evolution for the sake of game play and trends, but may also play a key theme in the story as well. There are also now more consequences to what players can do and who they can meet and the order in which it unfolds.




Other means of communication/relationships that may be relevant:

- Psychic telepathy. May have to do with Mantis.

- Sign language. Quiet can't speak, relating to her may mean finding other means of communicating through experience and physical relationships. For example via 'Body language' which may change overtime as you grow accustomed to one another. Could this somehow also tie into her attire?

- Man/animal. Your dog and horse and particularly DD.




Themes relating to loss:

Big Boss and Kaz both lose limbs and it seems for Kaz even eyesight.

They feel the loss of MSF and their former men and all they've built.

As has been expressed before with the example of the native peoples. A native in the modern world may experience loss of a former cultural heritage that is all but extinguished. Something that feels like it should be there but isn't any more.

Even in other civilizations or general daily life, one can feel the loss of something that is but a phantom memory about their heritage, religion, or even something as simple as human relationships.

Cultures and languages are bound very tightly. As cultures fade, so too does its language. It vanishes and becomes irretrievable. This may also tie into the general atmosphere of Japan as a nation today with an ageing population, low birth rates etc. A wide scale phenomena in Europe as well as other places that see themselves in a societal suicide while simultaneously are encouraged by NWO advocates and Climate alarmists to continue diminishing population and castrating the developing world.

Eerily enough a lot of this is tying into the situation between Kojima Productions and Konami right now.
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06-29-2015, 02:26 PM
Post: #2
RE: Language
How do we know Quiet has no tongue? I don't think we've seen her with her mouth wide open. I thought maybe she took a vow of silence, though it could have to do with the Parasite Unit, because there's some earpiece hooked up to that one subject's throat, which may have something to do with eliminating their former language....and some of us are speculating that she was a former subject of that unit, or escaped from it somehow.

I wonder if there may be a Tower of Babel reference in The Phantom Pain, even if that may be far-fetched. A weapon to surpass Metal Gear being some tall-ass spiraling tower sounds weirder than being an egg.

Guy Cihi mentioned something about everything being one language in one of his Facebook posts a week or so ago. It had to do with all these mass communication methods such as tablets and phones and how we're all being brought together by some common language.

"Language" was something I was thinking about after seeing the E3 2015 trailer, but I never bothered to put effort into explaining my opinions of it....and I'm sure my opinions pale in comparison to this, as some of what I would've referenced included body language, though not in the way Quiet might portray.

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06-29-2015, 08:18 PM
Post: #3
RE: Language
Oh right, for some reason I just assumed Quiet had no tongue, but all Kojima says is that she doesn't speak.

"With Stefanie, we had to make sure to focus her 3D motion on capturing her facial and body language and not her voice, since Quiet does not speak. She does make small sounds like “ugh” and “ah” though." - Kojima

This could just be psychological.

As you brought up 'technology' is indeed a tool of communication. So too the internet. And governments are trying to control that too. The iDroid might be reflective of this - visual and immediate information at the touch of a button.

It all ties into that vision of a 'world without borders' that the Boss believed in, which Zero and Big Boss are trying to accomplish.
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06-30-2015, 03:04 AM
Post: #4
RE: Language
(06-29-2015 02:26 PM)Old Gross Wrote:  I wonder if there may be a Tower of Babel reference in The Phantom Pain, even if that may be far-fetched. A weapon to surpass Metal Gear being some tall-ass spiraling tower sounds weirder than being an egg.

Guy Cihi mentioned something about everything being one language in one of his Facebook posts a week or so ago. It had to do with all these mass communication methods such as tablets and phones and how we're all being brought together by some common language.

"Language" was something I was thinking about after seeing the E3 2015 trailer, but I never bothered to put effort into explaining my opinions of it....and I'm sure my opinions pale in comparison to this, as some of what I would've referenced included body language, though not in the way Quiet might portray.

We already have one Tower of Babel and I'm guessing it will be Mother Base! MB is a project that has the mark of the BB, Kaz and Ocelot but it doesn't stand on it's own without soldiers, where the language doesn't matter and, since race is also a theme, racial issues too! All together to build a home, without nations or ideology! On the other hand, Zero is also building his own Tower of Babel, though with happened in PW, Zero is more insterested in "following" the Boss' will while Big Boss fights against it after leaving ther bandanna.

To an extent, Big Boss is once again creating a "language" of combat, of war! Remember how Ocelot told him that the world has eyes on him during their horse ride. It's amazing and akward how Big Boss goes "underground" for 9 years and when it recovers he has the whole world on him! I suspect Kaz and Ocelot had something to do with keeping Big Boss alive not only by creating DD but his history. Ocelot is probably doing this from inside Cypher/Patriots while Kaz with the organization itself.

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06-30-2015, 05:21 AM (This post was last modified: 06-30-2015 05:24 AM by PoisonSnake.)
Post: #5
RE: Language
In Western Europe, North America, some Asian and African countries, you can pretty much tell that the English language has won the battle -if there ever was a battle. And Eastern European countries are frantically catching up with their English learning. I dont know numbers but in Asia and South America and most of Africa English does not have the same prominence, but you can tell there are other forms of cultural and language penetration -it is inevitable if you step into technology or visual media
Moreover, other than formal English language learning, native tongues have been colonized (one could argue if parasitized) by English-isms to an extent that can drive you mad.
Dunno if there is any of this in the game, just my appreciation, but Skullface rang all the bells in my brain when he describes America as a country of liberties with people living next to each other, they don't assimilate. Can't tell why or how but I think this is inextricably linked to English language penetration.
Oh, now I remember, my crazy theory is that US perfected war into a genuine language penetration through media. I don't think this happened out of will and cpnscious purpose, it is far to wide to attribute it to a handful of guys engineering it. I think it was somehow bound to happen, and it might have happened in the millenial past as well in other cultural cycles of civilisation.
There were always heroes in fiction pointing this out.
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06-30-2015, 06:05 AM
Post: #6
RE: Language
(06-30-2015 05:21 AM)PoisonSnake Wrote:  In Western Europe, North America, some Asian and African countries, you can pretty much tell that the English language has won the battle -if there ever was a battle. And Eastern European countries are frantically catching up with their English learning. I dont know numbers but in Asia and South America and most of Africa English does not have the same prominence, but you can tell there are other forms of cultural and language penetration -it is inevitable if you step into technology or visual media
Moreover, other than formal English language learning, native tongues have been colonized (one could argue if parasitized) by English-isms to an extent that can drive you mad.
Dunno if there is any of this in the game, just my appreciation, but Skullface rang all the bells in my brain when he describes America as a country of liberties with people living next to each other, they don't assimilate. Can't tell why or how but I think this is inextricably linked to English language penetration.
Oh, now I remember, my crazy theory is that US perfected war into a genuine language penetration through media. I don't think this happened out of will and cpnscious purpose, it is far to wide to attribute it to a handful of guys engineering it. I think it was somehow bound to happen, and it might have happened in the millenial past as well in other cultural cycles of civilisation.
There were always heroes in fiction pointing this out.

South America is almost entirely Hispanic. English does have some intrusion but I don't think it's that much! I can't speak for Asia but here in Portugal, Mandarin has been announced as something to become an optional language in certain areas, namely Social Sciences. Until the internet, English was the major language due to have been the lasrgest colonial empire. Now, Mandarin has gained a new look because of economics and it doesn't only affects westerns but also China's neighbouring contries.

Since TPP is continuing to have AI technology and from this discussion, perhaps Arsenal Gear will now become something worked out in the 80's! Yeah, TPP's MB will have an Arsenal Gear prototype underneath them. Rolleyes

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06-30-2015, 12:45 PM
Post: #7
RE: Language
English gained prominence for many reason. One was of course the British Empire. But also in terms of finance and money, English is the business language of choice. It is not surprising that when it comes to international affairs, one common language dominates, just as in the past we'd have Greek or Latin. If anything it's a matter of convenience.

But as is noted in our times, the common language is also a means of convenient propaganda. For years, state-co-opted news channels like the BBC, CNN, FOX, CBC etc. would be broadcast worldwide and would spin issues in favour of the establishment that owned them.

Today more nations are creating counter-propaganda channels in English so that their views can also be shared worldwide, we see this in fairly recent English channels for Al Jazeera, Russian TV, and also in the rise of other independent media.

It's gotten to the point where the USA and Europe are concerned and afraid of this competing narrative that they are attempting to shut down these channels or limit their exposure.

With regards to the Tower of Babel, the account is of mankind, puffed up with pride, attempting to rebel against God and symbolically try to enter Heaven on their own terms, demonstrated by the building of the Tower.

Mankind being consolidated under a common tongue, therefore made it easier to collaborate in evil. During such times it may have been common to our time in that we have shadowy organizations, attempting to consolidate and establish a new world order. And they will commit any number of sins to make it happen.

[Image: EU%20tower%20babel%202.jpg]

Babel is essentially Brussels where the EU is headquartered.
[Image: eu-hq.jpg]

God however was not amused, and allowed the construction to proceed unto a point. The Hebrew in Genesis where God looks down at the site is said to be akin a mocking tone like, "Awwww! Look at that! How cute!"

And so thus once the builders reach nearly to the zenit, it was then that God brought the whole thing crashing down. God waited until the construction was so far advanced to a point that when He made His move to see the sheer collapse of all those years of effort and labour in an instant would be completely devastating.

But prior to bringing down the tower, God confused the tongues of men so that they could not communicate with each other. A disruption of communications meant that the perpetrators were divided and unable to consolidate again. Everything was brought to ruin and confusion.

In our time we may equate this with a disruption of electronics or cyber hacking. Perhaps what Skullface is attempting to do is to destroy the lines of communication and in this confusion destroy the edifice that Zero is building. Perhaps Metal Gear's payload is also intended primarily as a powerful EMP. If as of this time, A.I. is being used to build a new world order, then this would make sense.

Another far-fetched idea is the angle of parapsychology with regards to Mantis. For example if in sci-fi land A.I. could be invented to mimic the human mind, then theoretically, could an A.I. also be capable of psychic abilities? And could this instead be the 'bomb' or 'EMP' that could instead trigger in the minds of surrounding civilians and disrupt armies and nations? And could this be housed in Metal Gear itself?

Moving back to Babel, the origin and divisions of language have long been a paradox and mystery for anyone seeking to explain their origin apart from the Bible, and many agree that every language bears signs of being traceable to one common original which is an idea acceptable even to those predisposed to rejecting the Biblical account for a more evolutionist explanation.

The site of Babel and the Biblical account testify to the idea of extreme heat being present and used to literally vitrify the sands to the point of a rough glass, which again ties into the idea of nukes. Babel is located in Babylon. The first tower was believed to have been under construction by Nimrod. In the Chaldean Language it was referred to as Barzippa (Tongue Tower), in Greek - Borsippa. Believed to be Babylon's most ancient site, King Nebuchadnezzar rebuilt it's base when he rebuilt Babylon. He inscribed on its base an ode to all that he'd done to rebuild and honour this site in particular:

"The Tower, the eternal house, which I founded & built.
I have completed its magnificence with silver, gold, other metals, stone, enamelled bricks, fir & pine.
The first which is the house of the Earth's base, the most ancient monument of Babylon; I built & finished it.
...
the house of the seven lights of the Earth, the most ancient monument of Borsippa.
A former King built it ... but he did not complete its head.
Since a remote time, people had abandoned it, without order expressing their words.
Since that time the earthquake & the thunder had dispersed the sun-dried clay.
The bricks of the casing had been split, and the earth of the interior had been scattered in heaps.
Merodach, the great god, excited my mind to repair this building.
I did not change the site nor did I take away the foundation.
...
I undertook to build porticoes around the crude brick masses, and the casing of burnt bricks.
...
As it had been in ancient days, so I exalted its summit."


Interestingly enough, the story doesn't end there. In the New Testament on the feast of Pentecost after the Resurrection of Christ from the dead, a reversal of Babel occurs. When the Disciples and the Mother of Christ gathered in an upper room. The Holy Spirit descended upon them in 'Tongues of fire' and when they spoke praising God, numerous people of various languages who'd gathered in Jerusalem could hear them speaking in their own language. What is referred to miraculously as the gift of tongues.

[Image: pentecost1.jpg]

This was a symbolic reversal of Babel, like many other types of the Old Testament reversed and renewed in the New Testament, that indicated God was once again collecting the scattered human beings form all over the Earth under one common roof and one common tongue.

In Babel, it was a common rebellion of man against God. In Jerusalem, it was a common return of man to God. So it is not that a common tongue or union of man is undesirable, but rather under what conditions.

To this day the Catholic Church maintains Latin as the common tongue of the Church and the official language of its Mass. That is... until the Second Vatican Council, where the Mass was allowed to be in the vernacular language, imagining that this would be more agreeable to bringing people together, but in a very ironic way has actually led to a collapse within the Church where instead there are now more divisions between groups of people who each prefer their own language and so thus has actually led to the opposite of the unity and more in-coordination and even rebellion. There are now efforts to reform that amongst Traditional movements.

The new vernacular mass created during VII was termed the 'Novus Ordo' or 'New Order.' Which ties strongly to the motto of the Masonic Novus Ordo Seclorum (New Order of the Ages), which is the seal of the US of A.
[Image: 16982-Novus-ordo-seclorum.jpg]

As the Catholic Church faces a great crisis and apostasy amongst its own members and its institutions are routinely co-opted by secular socialist forces, and when even the present Pope is idiotic enough to hop on board calls for a global governing body. Conspiracies have long been foretold and exist that the Vatican II council was hijacked. That Pope John Paul I was assassinated amongst other things such as KGB infiltration during the Cold War, and its role in instigating liberation theology, or even longer since the Inquisition uncovered Freemasonic plots to undermine the stability of the State and the Church. But that's a whole other topic.

In any case, what I'm getting at is that unity can be achieved through a common tongue. And whenever language is divided then the people are divided.

What I suspect is that Zero is going for a common tongue of his own, but this is predicated on a level far above and beyond that of simple spoken language. It may have to do with what I said earlier about a kind of psychic harmonization of the world.

Perhaps by using A.I. and cellular tech.

In a sense - brainwashing - and maybe by inflicting upon the human psyche images of pain and torture. This experience, this 'SENSE' is the common tongue that is intended to unite the world through the language of 'EXPERIENCE.'

The 'RACE' that Zero is building could be people directly connected to this technology. The elimination of the body, and the era of cyborgs or rather transhumanism.

The marriage of man with the synthetic.

[Image: 2iqiq1l.png]


Skullface likely rejects this and instead seeks to keep the world divided. He may be using Big Boss as his pawn to hijack and utilize Metal Gear for his cause. He wants to end the consolidation between Zero and any others who are working to bring this about. In a way, it's all for revenge for what they've done to his own culture and identity and he intends to prevent them from carrying this out on a global scale. Skullface is probably one of the first products of Zero's new paradigm, and he wants revenge on Zero.

Kojima will likely be juxtapozing the dilemma at hand.
- Race, language, politics etc. are things that keep the world divided despite any love of diversity for its own sake.
- However a common World Order with a single governing body, a single group of people etc. can only lead to catastrophy and insanity, for in a sense it is impossible for man to bring this about without resorting to great evil. Such a thing is only in the domain of God. Any man who wishes to pursue this course is therefore making of himself a god and an idol.
- Big Boss likewise is being positioned as a legend and a symbol for men to gather under and must reflect on his role, perhaps a role he is reluctant to take except out of a driving necessity.
- The Tower of Babel wished to enter Heaven. Big Boss will decide to build Outer Heaven instead.
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06-30-2015, 02:47 PM
Post: #8
RE: Language
Holy fuck, do your asshole posts HAVE to be longer than a goddamn Tom Clancy novel?

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
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06-30-2015, 03:32 PM
Post: #9
RE: Language
Not enough pictures for you? Maybe you'd prefer a YongYea video?
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06-30-2015, 05:53 PM (This post was last modified: 06-30-2015 05:53 PM by PoisonSnake.)
Post: #10
RE: Language
Brainwashing is seriously over-rated -my opinion... You dont need it to manipulate the masses. In the 60s key research was done about human behavior, it aint secret, its published all over, and they totally nailed it. Plus honky tonks like Robert Anton Wilson made it even more popular and accesible in very compelling and easy reading books. The general public knows about this type of thing and manipulation, but just as people fail to see the big elephant in the room, the general public fails to grasp the implications of human manipulation and continue to buy into governments and politicians. Thats how powerful manipulaiton is.
And I personally think language is not the key... We are mammals with a thicker gray cortex, and this precedes linguistic development. The key to manipulation lies in understanding the mammal behavior. The fact we have a thicker gray cortex that produces language can even make it easier...
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07-02-2015, 10:18 AM
Post: #11
RE: Language
That's one lengthy ass post, jdnation! Good one, I reckon. Bookmarked and eventually read from start to finish!

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07-09-2015, 10:40 AM (This post was last modified: 07-09-2015 10:41 AM by Old Gross.)
Post: #12
RE: Language
Esperanto is an "auxiliary language".....shame I wasn't the first to bring this up, as someone on a Kotaku article mentioned it. You can read up on IAL's here if you're curious. This is actually a recent thing I learned about, and it seems interesting. Esperanto isn't the only IAL, either, as there are a couple of others. I don't think we'll be seeing Esperanto being used in The Phantom Pain. It may be a whole new type of language, especially if you catch the part where Skull Face says it's "words to control the subconscious"....since the subconscious is referenced, I can't help but wonder if they may not even be words in the strictest sense, but rather some type of information to be interpreted by the brain, if the subject's brain can interpret it. Then there's the question of how the subject learns this new language, which I'm pretty sure is hinted in that part of the E3 2015 trailer where BB is pulling out that earpiece from the guy's throat.

I'm also a bit curious about Skull Face's origins. I've been doing some research about Hungary, because supposedly he's Hungarian. Hungary was a part of the Warsaw Pact during the Cold War. Hungarian language is different from Russian language, not just up front, but also in concern to its roots....of course, I'm looking this shit up on Wikipedia as we speak. One thing, though, that I never thought about all these years was the question of whether or not the countries of the Warsaw Pact were required to speak Russian.
Skull Face might have been alive during WWII, during which time Hungary was allied with the Axis Powers. A lot of things happened in Hungary during this time, one also being that during their alliance with the Third Reich and the Kingdom of Italy, they were making peace deals with the US and the UK. In 1944, the Third Reich got wind of this and decided to occupy Hungary. In early 1945, the Kingdom of Hungary was defeated by the Soviet & Romanian invasion, and the Soviets would occupy Hungary until 1989....during which, in 1949, Hungary would become a Warsaw Pact member.
So, Skull Face was probably exposed to all sorts of different nationalities as a child. It's not unreasonable to assume that the authorities he was subject to were belligerent, whether they be German, Romanian, Russian, or even Hungarian. But then this goes into stuff that I still choose to claim as "theory", and not things I would dare to call "truth", especially since I could be branded as racist....things like whether or not a human conscience is different between nationalities. Or, if not "conscience", then rather what is defined as right, wrong, moral, immoral, delightful, disgusting....and how different nationalities and ethnic groups define these things. As for how all these things apply to Skull Face, we're left to speculate. But, of course, it's not etched in stone as to whether or not Skull Face is Hungarian to begin with; all we have is a little hint from Ground Zeroes. For all we know he probably wasn't born in Hungary, but moved there from his original place of birth, which he probably doesn't know of. Skull Face is supposed to be this "ghost without a past", someone who has lost everything, including his origin....though, I admit the very latter sounds baffling, unless I'm misinterpreting that detail.

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07-09-2015, 02:34 PM (This post was last modified: 07-09-2015 02:34 PM by jdnation.)
Post: #13
RE: Language
It is probable that Kojima might even leave Skull Face's precise origin and identity completely unknown so that he can be representative of 'everyman' whose been through that sort of thing.

Most likely Skullface or Zero are going to utilize psychic projection as a means of breaking through language barriers to deliver a message.

I speculated as an idea of Transhumanism that more on the sci-fi side, Zero could be building an AI that comuld be capable of psychic communication.

Also as perhaps an even crazier idea, what if as part of Zero's goal of a new humanity the Skulls themselves don't exist as anything other than A.I. with nano-tech bodies?

What if they're completely artificial? But via remote can be a new kind of being that can materialize in the world.

Think for example of Qora or whatshername from Tron Legacy. Either they are A.I. or experiments of transferring actual people into digital constructs, but on command can manifest in the real world?

What if Quiet herself is one of those that "don't actually exist"? Her body isn't actually real in the same sense of living human beings? She was never born. Thus not even torture can get her to talk. He body is not responsive to the same extent as ours, so whether pain or pleasure she isn't as affected?

On an even zanier tangent... What if Big Boss no longer 'exists' either? Following the chopper incident, multiple attempts were made to revive him, either through cloning, or maybe they'd even plan to move Big Boss into a transhumanist stage? I guess similar to the Boss on Peace Walker, what if the Big Boss we're seeing isn't precisely the same as the one we saw in Ground Zeroes? WOuld that be the trigger to drive him to madness?
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07-15-2015, 04:34 PM (This post was last modified: 07-15-2015 06:50 PM by Unknown Soldier.)
Post: #14
RE: Language
I don't know about this "language" mumbo-jumbo, but I am fairly sure [note: not absolutely sure] that subliminal control is a reality. I heard of a theory which [if I can recall correctly, as I heard it AGES ago] is about subliminal control through controlling DESIRES [or goals, not sure, something like that]. So anyway, according to the theory control can be achieved through subliminally programming the subconscious with subliminal messages which plants desired-concepts and desires within, thus pulling the target to desire exactly what the controller intends and seek it's achievement like an obedient little tamed animal.

I guess Kojima is using a similar concept.

[Image: 2wr3tef.jpg]
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07-21-2015, 12:53 PM
Post: #15
RE: Language
Also worth tossing out here, considering turning into demons and language...

One of the signs that a person may be possessed by a demon is if the person can suddenly speak fluently in other languages that would be impossible for them to know. Most notably old ancient languages that nobody speaks any more outside of those who've studied them, whether Latin, or ancient Egyptian, Pheonican, Mesopotamian, stuff from cultures or ancient empires that've long since disappeared.

Trained Exorcists must be studied in linguistics and be able to identify these things.

Don't know if Kojima is going to the the Language/Big Boss/Kaz-I'm-Already-an-Oni in this direction... but it'd be an interesting parallel if as the game goes on and as you acquire more languages, Big Boss slowly turns even more into Venom Snake and frankly can seem to look like a man possessed at times, though who's to say this isn't the effect of hypnotic suggestion or Psycho Mantis's ability to control people or whatever.

It's possible the scenes of Big Boss taking out his own soldiers may be because he's been possessed by Mantis and is shooting at things that aren't really there. Sort of the Silent Hill approach of "They look like monsters to you?" That or the soldiers are possessed and Big Boss is forced to kill his own men. Which I imagine would make him pretty pissed.
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