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Konami hates money: MGSV made $179 Million on Day 1
10-14-2015, 08:45 PM (This post was last modified: 10-14-2015 09:25 PM by jdnation.)
Post: #1
Konami hates money: MGSV made $179 Million on Day 1
Even going by the rumored budget of $80 million, and whatever little tuppence might've been spent marketing this, this figure is insanely impressive, practically doubling that of its development budget.

Not to mention that the rumored budget likely included development of FOX as a basis for streamlining the development of future titles through Konami, which will now never happen.

Metal Gear Solid V’s opening day was twice as good as Avengers: Age of Ultron’s
http://venturebeat.com/2015/10/14/metal-...f-ultrons/


"Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain made $179 million globally on its opening day, according to Adobe Digital Index’s new report on gaming trends. Compare that to the blockbuster Avengers: Age of Ultron, which made $84 million globally on its opening day. Yes, The Phantom Pain made almost twice as much. So, the next time someone tells you that triple-A gaming is dying, you’re allowed to laugh in their face.

...

This feat is even more impressive when you consider that Metal Gear Solid V had a cheaper budget. It cost $80 million to make, while Age of Ultron had a massive $250 million budget. And games already make more than film: Gaming will be worth $91.5 billion this year, according to research group Newzoo. Accounting firm PwC says that the movie industry will be worth $88.3 billion in 2015."




Metal Gear Solid V's opening day beats Jurassic World, Avengers combined
http://www.destructoid.com/metal-gear-so...5459.phtml



Of course the Avengers went on to gross in over a billion, and games tend to be front-loaded more so that films. Not to mention that some of that cut will go to retailers. But, basically doubling your budget on day one? That's a good sign... but of course there is also the fact that mobile could make you more money on less risky investment in terms of spending versus returns... But that's just as much a gamble versus a sure thing like MGS.


Meanwhile the Pachinko industry...
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/tag/pachinko/
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10-14-2015, 09:54 PM (This post was last modified: 10-14-2015 10:06 PM by Victor Katilis.)
Post: #2
RE: Konami hates money: MGSV made $179 Million on Day 1
Hint.
A cinema ticket costs 10 bucks.

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10-14-2015, 10:22 PM
Post: #3
RE: Konami hates money: MGSV made $179 Million on Day 1
Ground Zeroes did over a million. (x $40 demo)

So that's another potential $40 million.

So around $211 million. Assuming half goes to retailers/marketing, Konami has made about $100 million income.

Thus far around $20 million in profit if we subtract the dev budget. Which isn't great, but assuming the game has legs if Konami doesn't kill it with the microtransaction bullshit which must also be making them a little bit, and whatever they make through MGO3 which was likely included in the rumored development budget, the worst case scenario when the game dies will be $50 mil in profit over the next couple of years.

Granted this is not that great next to the profit generation of cheaper mobile titles and considering the investment, but given MGSV's development was also intended as a startup for FOX and Konami's initial re-attempt to get into gaming in a bigger way, had they stuck to the plan, new titles would've been developed faster at far lesser cost for higher margins.

Shit Kojima could've even cut the game at Act 2 and sold us the Act 3 epilogue later if he couldn't finish, which would've been shitty, but it'd still sell about as well as Ground Zeroes and been more substantial as a $40 product.

Silent Hills being a more linear affair that's not open world that doesn't require engine R&D would've also been killer, especially considering the hype generated around it.

Would this still tower over the potential Konami sees in mobile? No, not as it stands. But is their gaming division healthy? Yes. Could it have seen growth? Yes. Wasn't FOX developed for simultaneous mobile/tablet development? Yes. Could the console brands also provide interest to mobile spin-offs? Yes.

So it would've been in Konami's interest to keep the console division around. Investing or scaling back budgets as they see fit with the trends. Or hell, spun off the division as its own independent thing that makes them something on the side, or sold off the division to some Chinese firm or something, yet maintain control of the licenses.

Scuttling the whole thing and losing talented staff ain't wise. As mobiles grow in power, that talent can only help as they compete with other developers.

But maybe Konami going off and Kojima and co, carrying on elsewhere is for the best. Lord knows what microtransaction shit they would've done to Silent Hills. I'd bet they wanted to FOB that shit too by having you live in a haunted house where you have to collect souls and people can break into your house as ghosts and take your shit. Hence the 'plural.' Maybe Pyramid Head could've sold us insurance for that shit too.
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10-15-2015, 02:16 AM
Post: #4
RE: Konami hates money: MGSV made $179 Million on Day 1
Even if Konami executives end up realising above said potencial and keep the console development, I don't know how far that will be positive, because they'll probably try to force more microtransaction bullshit and Konami doesn't seem concerned with gamers - I would like to know what they think of Jim Sterling's #fuckkonami (if they do see it all).

Still on the question of gamers, just like there were reviewers that said that TPP was the best MGS despite not having played those before except the original MGS "because cutscenes", there are always those new gamers that will pick a new (non-Kojima) MGS if it looks nice and don't know who the fuck is Kojima so Konami will always have some new blood, even if not thaaat much.

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10-15-2015, 08:50 AM
Post: #5
RE: Konami hates money: MGSV made $179 Million on Day 1
Thing is, MGS primarily gets by on the back of the dedicated fan base.

To put things into perspective, a game like Halo can rake in $200 million day 1 on one platform.

GTAV I believe made $800 million day 1 as a multiplatform release.

Now what those games have going for them is not only a dedicated fanbase, but also extravaganza marketing.

What marketing does Konami do outside of trade shows and online through their own channels and places like IGN & GT? Do they plaster banners everywhere or put ads on TV and theaters like Microsoft and Take 2 do with their flagship franchises? No. At least not to the extent others do so.

So it's doubtful Konami heavily markets, otherwise sales could've been more impressive. But absent the dedicated fans and Kojima whose wacky marketing stunts actually do help bring more attention at no high cost, it's likely Konami will only hurt itself this way. So unless they plan to spend more on marketing to the newbs, it's bloody unlikely.

With FOX complete, Kojima probably had plans to churn more stuff out on the cheap, like more side ops single player DLC, new buddies etc. They could've milked this like Square Enix milked FFXIII to get back a return on investment on their failed Crystal Tools Engine. At least Konami has a working Engine all set up for now and into the future.

As Del Toro said, none of this makes any fucking sense, but Konami is Konami and Konami is the worst. These are the guy who refused to shell out decent budget for a fucking port of Silent Hill 2 & 3. Guaranteed money at a very very cheap investment, and they fucked that up too. Kojima even had to fix the ZOE port. Given everything we know so far, the only explanation is some kind of internal vendetta where people are trying to actively sabotage the console division, then use said failures as an excuse to get rid of Kojima and co. otherwise from every other standpoint, even if Konami wanted to put more emphasis on mobile, this isn't the way any normal business would operate.
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10-15-2015, 11:07 AM (This post was last modified: 10-15-2015 11:13 AM by JohnnySasaki20.)
Post: #6
RE: Konami hates money: MGSV made $179 Million on Day 1
Do you know how much MGSV has made thus far? Apparently it sold 3 million copies during its first week, but apparently it needs to sell at least 6 million copies to make a profit. I don't know exactly why, but I'm sure it has something to do with Konami not getting nearly 100% of the sales, plus, it costs money to make and package the game, as well as ship it, etc, etc.

Apparently the budget was around $80 million, and if you go by $60 bucks a copy, with 3 million copies sold in the first week (the sales drop off dramatically after that apparently), that comes to $180 million. So I don't know if my numbers are off, yours are, or they sold a metric fuck-ton on the first day, and then sold hardly anything the next 6 days of the first week, but either way, $180 million, is clearly $100 million dollar profit, right? Well, apparently not, because they need to sell at least double that, or $360 million to recoup their original $80 million dollar budget.

If my math is correct, then that would mean that, out of the $60 dollars they are charging per copy, Konami only get's $13.33 for every copy they sell.

So, if you take the $180 million they apparently sold, in either the first week, or day one (which ever is correct), that would mean they DIDN'T make $180 million, but only around $40 million, or half of their budget, not double. Meaning they're still heavily in the red.

Edit: I underlined "apparently", because upon reading my post over, it seems I used that word a shit load, lol.

Earlier I Wrote:You forgot about the reptilian shapeshifting raptor aliens, from the planet Nibiru, that live in deep underground bases, who are in cahoots with the Nazi ODESSA Fourth Reich, which is being secretly commanded by Hitler, Elvis, and Tupac Shakur, that have been enslaving us as a genetically designed alien/human hybrid race for thousands of years, by using the illuminati skull and bones freemason society, who built the pyramids with their flying saucers, and are living in the 6 thousand year old hollow earth, via an entrance in Antarctica, to construct a New World Order, which was outlined and enforced by the secret Bilderberg and Council on Foreign Relations groups, at Bohemian Grove, where they dance around naked and worship a devil owl, and developed their master draconian Agenda 21 plan to alter the weather via contrails and HAARP, and eventually depopulate the earth by killing billions of people in FEMA camps. They killed JFK, and Stanley Kubrick faked the moon landings at Area 51. .....also,...uhh,....Jimmy Hoffa...
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10-15-2015, 11:43 AM
Post: #7
RE: Konami hates money: MGSV made $179 Million on Day 1
It should be profitable in the first month.

But of course the big picture is
a) How long it takes.
b) Was the return on investment worth it?

Compared to what could be spent on mobile to make something back, it's easy to agree with Konami that it's not.

I also don't believe Kojima was counting on MGSV alone to make those returns other than at least recoup the investment and then some. This is considering the earlier plan where Konami greenlit the idea of turning around the console development division and tasking with Kojima to get FOX done, as well as opening KP LA.

Kojima was even talking about getting games out faster and following a more episodic model with regards to stuff like Ground Zeroes. There were also little hints here and there about the possibility of making FOX a third party licensing engine for other Japanese developers.

Taking all that into consideration, understandably a big up front investment was necessary for a longer term gain, and that required something to justify this and Metal Gear Solid was the obvious go-to. Kojima canned any new IP ideas and stuck with MGS.

The first game that should've released on FOX was supposed to be Metal Gear RISING. But that game's dev got borked and assets were instead taken from FOX and moved to Platinum to shit it out quickly. So RISING's failure was one large initial blow.

In tandem, FOX was being used in its partial state for PES, a series that is also seeing declines due to competition from FIFA which is obviously more popular, and there's only room in this world for one Big Boss.

FOX was also being developed to support porting between console and tablet/mobile as well as Konami's own mobile titles. It would not surprise me if Konami still leveraged FOX for mobile, but just dropped any mention of this fact, or just renames it to Konami Internal Engine platform or something.

Considering also that MGSV is an open world title and Konami & Kojima wished to capitilize off of Western trends, again they had to be aware of the budgets of similar games from Assassin's Creed to GTA. Also if you're going for a top rate Engine that you also may have intended to license out, making it supportable of open-world titles is an obvious feature and you use your flagship series to demonstrate that. We know Kojima also intended to let players create their own side-ops. So a lot of stuff was happening behind the scenes.

I haven't watched the blu ray yet so maybe there's more insight there. But given all the above, if that was indeed Konami's plan before the recent 180 which insiders claim occurred, and which would make sense because Kojima couldn't just magically embark on all this without Konami's higher ups knowing while allowing him to spend, the first day sales indicate a positive reception that will in the end at the very least cover the initial investment.

This is good -IF- its the first step in a plan to revitalize the console division and begin putting out more games and titles upon the foundation you've built.

But if seen strictly as a profitable venture strictly for ONE solitary game (which is what recent decisions have turned this into), then this is a very disappointing return.
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10-15-2015, 01:27 PM
Post: #8
RE: Konami hates money: MGSV made $179 Million on Day 1
jdnation

MGS as a series may rely on the fanbase but TPP started a "new" trend because of being open.world with driveable vehicles, Quiet's boobs and the promise of blood and tabus.Like I've said, I imagine there is a great number of people that bought this game just because of and some others that, like Angry Joe and one of the dudes in a video review you posted a week ago, haven't played the series since the original MGS and noe they love it and spread the word. Also, Konami gets known due to its name and TPP also had known actors in it to boost the game without going for commercials,

What you've said about Konami's and Kojima's plans are correct and I had forgotten that episodic shit that Kojima said he was thinking in. Despite not having Kojima, your reference to Assassin's Creed is the same one I've ben thinking when talking about the future MGS games because Ubisoft spends greta money from time to time in making a stapple game but then that game gets reused - from animations to other assets.

(About DLC I can already imagine a Beauty & Beast costume pack for Quiet)

About JohnnySasaki20's numbers, that estimate that Konami needs to sell the triple was already mentioned as news in eurogamer.pt (Portuguese) and was also mentioned in a comment about todays TPP's numbers in said site.

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10-15-2015, 01:41 PM (This post was last modified: 10-15-2015 01:43 PM by JohnnySasaki20.)
Post: #9
RE: Konami hates money: MGSV made $179 Million on Day 1
(10-15-2015 01:27 PM)Dr. Clark Wrote:  ... like Angry Joe and one of the dudes in a video review you posted a week ago, haven't played the series since the original MGS and noe they love it and spread the word. ...

I think Angry Joe said he's never played a MGS game before GZ, so I don't think he's even played the first MGS. Could be wrong though.

Quote:About JohnnySasaki20's numbers, that estimate that Konami needs to sell the triple was already mentioned as news in eurogamer.pt (Portuguese) and was also mentioned in a comment about todays TPP's numbers in said site.

Oh. So I'm right then? Link? I think I said they need to sell 4.5 times their budget to break even though, not triple.

Earlier I Wrote:You forgot about the reptilian shapeshifting raptor aliens, from the planet Nibiru, that live in deep underground bases, who are in cahoots with the Nazi ODESSA Fourth Reich, which is being secretly commanded by Hitler, Elvis, and Tupac Shakur, that have been enslaving us as a genetically designed alien/human hybrid race for thousands of years, by using the illuminati skull and bones freemason society, who built the pyramids with their flying saucers, and are living in the 6 thousand year old hollow earth, via an entrance in Antarctica, to construct a New World Order, which was outlined and enforced by the secret Bilderberg and Council on Foreign Relations groups, at Bohemian Grove, where they dance around naked and worship a devil owl, and developed their master draconian Agenda 21 plan to alter the weather via contrails and HAARP, and eventually depopulate the earth by killing billions of people in FEMA camps. They killed JFK, and Stanley Kubrick faked the moon landings at Area 51. .....also,...uhh,....Jimmy Hoffa...
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10-15-2015, 02:53 PM (This post was last modified: 10-15-2015 03:09 PM by jdnation.)
Post: #10
RE: Konami hates money: MGSV made $179 Million on Day 1
That's a good point Dr.C .

Indeed many new people will be introduced to MGSV. It's gameplay is fun, and given the vast majority of people never finish their games, let alone open world ones, likely nobody will have played far enough to get to the stuff people are complaining about, and likely most will occupy themselves with MGO3.

As for selling triple the budget. Assuming that budget is 80 million, that $240 million. Assuming they get half the retail cut, MGSV hypothetically needs to sell $480 million then that's about 8 million copies of the game at full retail price ($60).

MGS4's sales on one platform were 6 million when all was said and done?

Given the initial hype and it's multiplatform nature, MGSV could do more than this over the long run. Add in DLC/microtransactions that people get, and even with the game discounted overtime, Konami will make it back.

If Konami were smart they'd have allowed Kojima to make more Ground Zeroes releases with Act 3 and/or a Subsistence version to get this up.

Undoubtedly there is also plenty of merchandising on the side. Kojima isn't parading out those watches, T-shirts, action figures and Pumas strictly for fun. So there are other revenue options.

Ground Zeros also cushioned what they needed to sell out a bit. I bet they could've even gotten away with putting out an Act 3 Epilogue if Konami wanted Kojima to wrap development at Act 2. Just transfarr your save over.

So over the long term Konami will make it's money back with MGSV, had it stuck to the plan of creating new games upon the foundation MGSV built they'd be comfortably making stuff following Ubisoft's model.

As investment for one game it's not worth it. But as the start-up for their previous console revitalization strategy, they'd be sitting comfortably.
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10-15-2015, 03:48 PM
Post: #11
RE: Konami hates money: MGSV made $179 Million on Day 1
(10-15-2015 02:53 PM)jdnation Wrote:  MGS4's sales on one platform were 6 million when all was said and done?

I believe so, yes. I think that was total sales, but I guess it only came out on the PS3, so yeah.

Quote:Undoubtedly there is also plenty of merchandising on the side. Kojima isn't parading out those watches, T-shirts, action figures and Pumas strictly for fun. So there are other revenue options.

Don't forget the numerous $300 sunglasses from J.F. Rey. Personally, I wouldn't buy them specifically because they have "Metal Gear Solid V" written on them, but Ocelot's sunglasses are pretty sick otherwise.

http://mgsv-jfrey.com/en/

Earlier I Wrote:You forgot about the reptilian shapeshifting raptor aliens, from the planet Nibiru, that live in deep underground bases, who are in cahoots with the Nazi ODESSA Fourth Reich, which is being secretly commanded by Hitler, Elvis, and Tupac Shakur, that have been enslaving us as a genetically designed alien/human hybrid race for thousands of years, by using the illuminati skull and bones freemason society, who built the pyramids with their flying saucers, and are living in the 6 thousand year old hollow earth, via an entrance in Antarctica, to construct a New World Order, which was outlined and enforced by the secret Bilderberg and Council on Foreign Relations groups, at Bohemian Grove, where they dance around naked and worship a devil owl, and developed their master draconian Agenda 21 plan to alter the weather via contrails and HAARP, and eventually depopulate the earth by killing billions of people in FEMA camps. They killed JFK, and Stanley Kubrick faked the moon landings at Area 51. .....also,...uhh,....Jimmy Hoffa...
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10-16-2015, 02:14 AM
Post: #12
RE: Konami hates money: MGSV made $179 Million on Day 1
(10-15-2015 01:41 PM)JohnnySasaki20 Wrote:  Oh. So I'm right then? Link? I think I said they need to sell 4.5 times their budget to break even though, not triple.

As a matter of fact, the news speaks about selling the double:
http://www.eurogamer.pt/articles/2015-09...r-rentavel

based on this link (contained in the above one):

http://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/...woods-yet/

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10-16-2015, 12:29 PM
Post: #13
RE: Konami hates money: MGSV made $179 Million on Day 1
Well, bad games should not make cash.
End of the story.
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10-16-2015, 12:42 PM
Post: #14
RE: Konami hates money: MGSV made $179 Million on Day 1
(10-16-2015 02:14 AM)Dr. Clark Wrote:  
(10-15-2015 01:41 PM)JohnnySasaki20 Wrote:  Oh. So I'm right then? Link? I think I said they need to sell 4.5 times their budget to break even though, not triple.

As a matter of fact, the news speaks about selling the double:
http://www.eurogamer.pt/articles/2015-09...r-rentavel

based on this link (contained in the above one):

http://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/...woods-yet/

Oh. Well, I think when they say "double", they mean double what they have already sold. The link says they have sold 3 million units (as of 9/21, when it was posted) and that they need to sell at least 6 million to be profitable. Those are the same numbers I put up.

So, $6 million times $60 per unit = $360 million. Divide that by their original $80 million dollar budget, and it gives you 4.5. Meaning they need to sell 4.5 times their original budget to become profitable. Exactly what I said in my above post.

Earlier I Wrote:You forgot about the reptilian shapeshifting raptor aliens, from the planet Nibiru, that live in deep underground bases, who are in cahoots with the Nazi ODESSA Fourth Reich, which is being secretly commanded by Hitler, Elvis, and Tupac Shakur, that have been enslaving us as a genetically designed alien/human hybrid race for thousands of years, by using the illuminati skull and bones freemason society, who built the pyramids with their flying saucers, and are living in the 6 thousand year old hollow earth, via an entrance in Antarctica, to construct a New World Order, which was outlined and enforced by the secret Bilderberg and Council on Foreign Relations groups, at Bohemian Grove, where they dance around naked and worship a devil owl, and developed their master draconian Agenda 21 plan to alter the weather via contrails and HAARP, and eventually depopulate the earth by killing billions of people in FEMA camps. They killed JFK, and Stanley Kubrick faked the moon landings at Area 51. .....also,...uhh,....Jimmy Hoffa...
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10-18-2015, 03:22 PM
Post: #15
RE: Konami hates money: MGSV made $179 Million on Day 1
It becomes much more simple once you realise Kojima WANTED to tell Konami to go fuck themselves since god knows when.

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