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Identity as a Theme
03-05-2014, 01:26 PM
Post: #1
Identity as a Theme
So it's well known at this point that a major aspect of MGSV in terms of narrative and marketing has been "who's who?"

Koji Pro was pretending to be Moby Studios.
Kojima himself was pretending to be Sven I believe (off top of my head)
We already have a girl with natural octo camo abilities.
And we have this big ? villain named, SkullFace.
Finally there are, "those who don't exist."

Hideo Kojima likes playing with the tools he has probably moreso and better than any other videogame developer out there. His unassuming Japanese manners make it hard to see him as anything more than a harmless game developer no matter how many times he has lied to his fanbase throughout the years ( Anyone familiar with his lauding of cell technology probably can't forget how much he exaggerated the capabilities of the hardware and the extent to which he intended to use it). At the end of the day you know that the game you just played was special and/or better than anything else out there no matter how warm the steaming pile of shit was that he fed you.

MGSV, with its admittance of inferiority in the development of its multiplayer in the United States, and the full use of current technology ( like iOS devices) as an in-game tool for the game itself, and furthermore, more questions prior to release for an MGS game than ever before (as if Kojima has to work that hard to create interest in one of his games anyway) it's fair to say that all the unnecessary fanfare and mystery is in large part a key aspect to the game itself.

If you're still reading here's a heart for you. Heart

Let's look at gameplay:

- random guard patrols
- non-linear mission structure
- open world
- persistent online features via iOS a la Souls' games.

This leaves A LOT of accessibility and discretion to the player. This is not Metal Gear as Kojima knows it (though he clearly wants this after the pressure he built up after MGS2), this is Metal Gear as the industry needs it if it intends to compete with and come out on top of the crap that's been fueling it for so long ( I won't mention any names).

Why am I saying all this? Well, it seems like a wasted effort at this point to try and get a new fanbase in and try to get them to become fans based on previous titles when they've just finished playing Call of Duty, Battlefield, maybe Dark Souls, and obviously Grand Theft Auto 5 but yet, all of the core features found in those titles can be found in MGSV.

I say all this because Kojima has already pleased (and displeased) the fans with his MGS4 game. It's not about us anymore which is probably a good thing.

So who is Skullface? Skullface is the new lalilulelo..he's the new Patriots. He's one of dead guards in The Sorrow's nightmare level. He's gene, he's Python, he's Psycho Mantis' father, he's Raikov, he's volgin, he's the sorrow himself and the boss with a sex change reanimated through nanomachines, hypnotic suggestion, a lightning bolt and a time machine from the future to stop him from having babies so the machines can win the war against solid snake and prevent him from installing fox alive and saving mankind. He's every piece of dead matter that Big Boss has had the displeasure of having to put six feet under multiple times in games past. (though he's clearly not grey fox)

I think with Big Boss becoming a different person after his accident, he probably won't be too interested in who is coming after him. I don't think we'll ever know who Skullface is and for the first time in years, I don't think we'll be convinced by the story's narrative that we even have to care.

TLDR: Skullface is Kojima's return to form. Skullface is MGSV's lalilulelo and we should all be happy because of it.
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03-05-2014, 02:53 PM
Post: #2
RE: Identity as a Theme
Kojima's only true face is trollface

Suck my fat one you cheap dime store hood
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03-05-2014, 06:10 PM
Post: #3
RE: Identity as a Theme
"Identity" would be an interesting one, assuming MGSV is going to tackle that, but we don't know.

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03-07-2014, 01:19 AM
Post: #4
RE: Identity as a Theme
(03-05-2014 06:10 PM)Old Gross Wrote:  "Identity" would be an interesting one, assuming MGSV is going to tackle that, but we don't know.

so far all we know is race...or something
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03-07-2014, 08:25 AM
Post: #5
RE: Identity as a Theme
Not just race, but also revenge. I think revenge comes first before race though, but I only say that based on what I read first.

Maybe the theme of revenge will display how Big Boss eventually falls from grace during his formation of Outer Heaven and subsequent attempt at world domination and all that stuff.

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03-07-2014, 11:22 AM
Post: #6
RE: Identity as a Theme
(03-07-2014 08:25 AM)Old Gross Wrote:  Not just race, but also revenge. I think revenge comes first before race though, but I only say that based on what I read first.

Maybe the theme of revenge will display how Big Boss eventually falls from grace during his formation of Outer Heaven and subsequent attempt at world domination and all that stuff.

Revenge will be so cool in a Metal Gear game. I really hope he doesn't pull too many punches neither. As in, as much as I've enjoyed Morally Ambiguous Super Clone....I think you get the picture.
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03-07-2014, 12:37 PM
Post: #7
RE: Identity as a Theme
I wonder how "Revenge" will be executed in the game's portrayal.....and in terms of gameplay, what extent will it encompass?

This also reminds me of some speculation I read about Skull Face on a Reddit thread......Skull Face's purpose is said to be an inverse of Kaz; morally-speaking, Skull Face is intent on bringing Big Boss down, to low levels. Maybe that would explain Skull Face's allegiance to Cipher (The Patriots); maybe Cipher is trying to make him into a horrible person, so they're doing things to piss him off so that it happens.
Big Boss cuts off all ties with Cipher when he discovers that they gave birth to clones of him (because Big Boss believes that "You can't mass-produce human-beings"); for them to do that most likely infuriates him, too. Big Boss then founds his own group, and Cipher doesn't like this, so the destruction of Mother Base is meant to be Cipher taunting him like "Nope nope nope; you can't do that! ^^" further angering him. Then he gets hospitalized and I assume that during his 9-year coma he loses his left arm and gets a horn placed in his skull, possibly an act on Cipher's part. I don't know what happens next, but obviously Big Boss loses everything at this point, and he still attempts to survive, and all things considered, Big Boss becomes motivated by revenge. Then Skull Face returns and attempts to bring Big Boss down to lower levels of morality. Depending on how it all goes, it may cause Big Boss to just snap and decide to take his revenge on not just Cipher but also the world, to establish Outer Heaven and ultimately become the sole superpower. Otherwise, Big Boss was likely trying to create his own interpretation of The Boss's will...but to hell with that after The Phantom Pain.

Just random thoughts.

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QUOTE
03-07-2014, 06:10 PM
Post: #8
RE: Identity as a Theme
(03-07-2014 12:37 PM)Old Gross Wrote:  I wonder how "Revenge" will be executed in the game's portrayal.....and in terms of gameplay, what extent will it encompass?

This also reminds me of some speculation I read about Skull Face on a Reddit thread......Skull Face's purpose is said to be an inverse of Kaz; morally-speaking, Skull Face is intent on bringing Big Boss down, to low levels. Maybe that would explain Skull Face's allegiance to Cipher (The Patriots); maybe Cipher is trying to make him into a horrible person, so they're doing things to piss him off so that it happens.
Big Boss cuts off all ties with Cipher when he discovers that they gave birth to clones of him (because Big Boss believes that "You can't mass-produce human-beings"); for them to do that most likely infuriates him, too. Big Boss then founds his own group, and Cipher doesn't like this, so the destruction of Mother Base is meant to be Cipher taunting him like "Nope nope nope; you can't do that! ^^" further angering him. Then he gets hospitalized and I assume that during his 9-year coma he loses his left arm and gets a horn placed in his skull, possibly an act on Cipher's part. I don't know what happens next, but obviously Big Boss loses everything at this point, and he still attempts to survive, and all things considered, Big Boss becomes motivated by revenge. Then Skull Face returns and attempts to bring Big Boss down to lower levels of morality. Depending on how it all goes, it may cause Big Boss to just snap and decide to take his revenge on not just Cipher but also the world, to establish Outer Heaven and ultimately become the sole superpower. Otherwise, Big Boss was likely trying to create his own interpretation of The Boss's will...but to hell with that after The Phantom Pain.

Just random thoughts.

yeah for sure. I think the only thing I hate about the "army without a nation" thing is it's stupid by today's standards. That's hardly what I'd call any sort of cause. It's a mercenary group....they take money to fight other people's wars....honorable? has being a mercenary ever been so?
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03-07-2014, 06:43 PM (This post was last modified: 03-07-2014 06:57 PM by DarthCaligula.)
Post: #9
RE: Identity as a Theme
(03-07-2014 12:37 PM)Old Gross Wrote:  I wonder how "Revenge" will be executed in the game's portrayal.....and in terms of gameplay, what extent will it encompass?

This also reminds me of some speculation I read about Skull Face on a Reddit thread......Skull Face's purpose is said to be an inverse of Kaz; morally-speaking, Skull Face is intent on bringing Big Boss down, to low levels. Maybe that would explain Skull Face's allegiance to Cipher (The Patriots); maybe Cipher is trying to make him into a horrible person, so they're doing things to piss him off so that it happens.
Big Boss cuts off all ties with Cipher when he discovers that they gave birth to clones of him (because Big Boss believes that "You can't mass-produce human-beings"); for them to do that most likely infuriates him, too. Big Boss then founds his own group, and Cipher doesn't like this, so the destruction of Mother Base is meant to be Cipher taunting him like "Nope nope nope; you can't do that! ^^" further angering him. Then he gets hospitalized and I assume that during his 9-year coma he loses his left arm and gets a horn placed in his skull, possibly an act on Cipher's part. I don't know what happens next, but obviously Big Boss loses everything at this point, and he still attempts to survive, and all things considered, Big Boss becomes motivated by revenge. Then Skull Face returns and attempts to bring Big Boss down to lower levels of morality. Depending on how it all goes, it may cause Big Boss to just snap and decide to take his revenge on not just Cipher but also the world, to establish Outer Heaven and ultimately become the sole superpower. Otherwise, Big Boss was likely trying to create his own interpretation of The Boss's will...but to hell with that after The Phantom Pain.

Just random thoughts.

I think it's pretty likely that Big Boss is injured in an explosion while Mother Base is getting destroyed, he's knocked out and goes into a coma because of it, and he loses his arm from that and that the horn in his head is shrapnel that can't be removed without killing him.
Actually, the horn doesn't appear to be in his head when he goes into a coma: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1Bu1lDD2So So I guess it's not shrapnel from an explosion.
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03-07-2014, 06:52 PM
Post: #10
RE: Identity as a Theme
(03-07-2014 06:10 PM)nanoMACHINEgun Wrote:  yeah for sure. I think the only thing I hate about the "army without a nation" thing is it's stupid by today's standards. That's hardly what I'd call any sort of cause. It's a mercenary group....they take money to fight other people's wars....honorable? has being a mercenary ever been so?
Well, if you remember the ending to Peace Walker, the foundational purpose of Outer Heaven is described. Perhaps, in Big Boss's mind, Outer Heaven (or MSF for that matter) isn't just some random bunch of mercs; Big Boss had a philosophy behind the group's founding. One of the ideas was to give soldiers a new home, one where they wouldn't be tools of their respective governments. Technically they would be tools nonetheless due to being part of MSF, but it could be assumed that life in MSF is pretty good, and Big Boss isn't a typical asshole employer, and supposedly even listens to his grunts and takes their feelings and experiences into account to better the group.....therefore, MSF personnel being tools (despite not wanting to be tools of their governments) is a moot point.
Anyway, aside from the whole "being a tool" thing, Big Boss describes the philosophy behind the group's purpose at the end of Peace Walker. As for money, I can only imagine how they earn their revenue; there are times when I think there are certain jobs they won't take, even if such jobs paid astronomically. Obviously, being what they are, they would require revenue and other similar financial income in order to survive...but as for them serving to wage other people's wars, that's kind of been a frequent thing throughout the Cold War, except MSF is a different case in that they're independent of any nation and government. Plus, after the events of Peace Walker, MSF has its own ulterior motives, such as defending itself from Cipher. We're not sure how big Cipher is in 1970 up to 1974, though, but assuming Big Boss knows of Zero's intentions, MSF would need to grow as well, and in order to grow, obviously they will require some kind of financial income, and Kaz hints near the end that proxy wars are a revolutionary new method of income, even predicting that long after the Cold War, proxy wars will become the future of global economic prosperity....

....but during and/or after The Phantom Pain, who is to say that Big Boss might finally break? Enough might happen to the point where Big Boss stops giving a shit and his group ends up spiraling down to the status of being just another mercenary group....albeit an extremely powerful one.

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QUOTE
03-07-2014, 07:13 PM
Post: #11
RE: Identity as a Theme
(03-07-2014 06:52 PM)Old Gross Wrote:  
(03-07-2014 06:10 PM)nanoMACHINEgun Wrote:  yeah for sure. I think the only thing I hate about the "army without a nation" thing is it's stupid by today's standards. That's hardly what I'd call any sort of cause. It's a mercenary group....they take money to fight other people's wars....honorable? has being a mercenary ever been so?
Well, if you remember the ending to Peace Walker, the foundational purpose of Outer Heaven is described. Perhaps, in Big Boss's mind, Outer Heaven (or MSF for that matter) isn't just some random bunch of mercs; Big Boss had a philosophy behind the group's founding. One of the ideas was to give soldiers a new home, one where they wouldn't be tools of their respective governments. Technically they would be tools nonetheless due to being part of MSF, but it could be assumed that life in MSF is pretty good, and Big Boss isn't a typical asshole employer, and supposedly even listens to his grunts and takes their feelings and experiences into account to better the group.....therefore, MSF personnel being tools (despite not wanting to be tools of their governments) is a moot point.
Anyway, aside from the whole "being a tool" thing, Big Boss describes the philosophy behind the group's purpose at the end of Peace Walker. As for money, I can only imagine how they earn their revenue; there are times when I think there are certain jobs they won't take, even if such jobs paid astronomically. Obviously, being what they are, they would require revenue and other similar financial income in order to survive...but as for them serving to wage other people's wars, that's kind of been a frequent thing throughout the Cold War, except MSF is a different case in that they're independent of any nation and government. Plus, after the events of Peace Walker, MSF has its own ulterior motives, such as defending itself from Cipher. We're not sure how big Cipher is in 1970 up to 1974, though, but assuming Big Boss knows of Zero's intentions, MSF would need to grow as well, and in order to grow, obviously they will require some kind of financial income, and Kaz hints near the end that proxy wars are a revolutionary new method of income, even predicting that long after the Cold War, proxy wars will become the future of global economic prosperity....

....but during and/or after The Phantom Pain, who is to say that Big Boss might finally break? Enough might happen to the point where Big Boss stops giving a shit and his group ends up spiraling down to the status of being just another mercenary group....albeit an extremely powerful one.

he really needs to justify why he needs that nuclear equipped walking battletank
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03-07-2014, 09:35 PM
Post: #12
RE: Identity as a Theme
(03-07-2014 07:13 PM)nanoMACHINEgun Wrote:  he really needs to justify why he needs that nuclear equipped walking battletank
Probably as a means to take on Cipher if worse comes to worse. As for justification to own ZEKE, they will have to come up with one because that's probably forbidden tech. Its exposure to the world would prompt the curiosity of other nations; they'll want the specs for ZEKE so they can make their own, thereby creating their own method of nuclear deterrence. Being as it's 1974, besides the other nations (UK, France, China, and India), the USA & USSR are the most powerful nations with authoritative nuclear strike capabilities, although none of the nuclear states happen to have something as unorthodox as, say, a two-legged vehicle capable of launching nukes from any point on the planet. Actually, Russia has trucks that can launch nukes, but nukes-on-wheels can only be so strategically effective.
I don't know how stuff like that works but if someone had such a weapon as that then that person's government may come after them, basically pestering him like "Nope nope nope; you can't have that! ^^" until he gives it away. Obviously Big Boss wouldn't be the type to just give away a critical piece of military hardware; ZEKE is meant to be a representation of MSF's power. But, above all else, if you had your own mecha, why would you want to just give it up? Never mind the fact that ZEKE is MSF's own, built from the ground up. But that's all nuclear politics and shit.

But regarding Big Boss's fall from grace, he'll probably use Metal Gear to threaten the world with nuclear war. Though that should be obvious, because nuclear deterrence is supposed to be a means of having a plentiful nuclear arsenal, more so than your enemy's if possible, and even use your power as a means to keep the enemy in check, to put the enemy in his place. Outer Heaven having a capable nuclear arsenal is a deterrent method; depending on Big Boss's psychological status, he could just say "Oh if you send anybody to provoke my nation I'll fucking glass your country!" and hope to God nobody messes with him after he announces that. This doesn't happen in Metal Gear (1987), but you get my point, yeah?

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03-08-2014, 05:50 AM
Post: #13
RE: Identity as a Theme
yah it makes sense. it's kojima's way of saying, "if you threaten me I'll make MGS4!!!"
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03-08-2014, 09:08 PM
Post: #14
RE: Identity as a Theme
I said awhile ago that I thought both Skullface and Ishmael were designed to resemble as many characters as possible in the series and I stand by that. It would be interesting if their identities were never truly revealed. And yeah, this is a good thread and I think you've got a point, OP.

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03-08-2014, 09:20 PM (This post was last modified: 03-08-2014 09:20 PM by THEND.)
Post: #15
RE: Identity as a Theme
(03-08-2014 09:08 PM)Punished Animal Wrote:  I said awhile ago that I thought both Skullface and Ishmael were designed to resemble as many characters as possible in the series and I stand by that. It would be interesting if their identities were never truly revealed. And yeah, this is a good thread and I think you've got a point, OP.

Thanks man. It'd be really cool if like you said, Skullface and Ishmael play a MAJOR conscience role in the game. I don't think I'd mind if there were a good vs. evil meter for certain actions. Like in some of the Star Wars games and I think maybe Fable. I'm sure this is something Kojima has considered putting in his games but opted for "kill"/"nokill" instead. Now just imagine what that would mean?
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