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I have stolen all the world's nukes, and you better do what I say!
10-29-2016, 06:39 AM (This post was last modified: 10-29-2016 12:56 PM by Canucklehead.)
Post: #16
RE: I have stolen all the world's nukes, and you better do what I say!
If they were to disarm Zanzibar by force, as in direct Military action, they'd send in Special Forces to gather information and ultimately sabotage remote pieces of Artillery, AAA, and etc. so that vehicles could actually approach the border. Now one thing I don't remember is whether or not Zanzibar was allied with any surrounding countries, because if so, the invading force would not only not be able to stage their attack from there, but they'd also essentially be at war with them as well.

Anyway, Special Forces takes out whatever early warning measures and long-range defensive capabilities. Now, air vehicles have to fight off Zanzibar's air force, not only the fighters but also attackers to preserve the ground assets. At the same time, overwhelming numbers of tanks have to break through Zanzibar's own defensive lines of tanks and infantry need to get engineers or artillery to destroy Zanzibar's artillery assets. During this whole time, supply & service needs to be able to withstand the counter-attack while they try to keep vehicles working, fueled, troops fed, and ammunition supplied. Medics also need to tend to wounded, which wouldn't happen on the foward end of the battle zone, so regular casevac has to also happen concurrently with everything (and of course every wounded soldier has to be replaced with a new one). Zanzibar also has a fleet of non-nuclear mobile walker gear for the armoured & mechanized units to deal with, which there isn't even an equivalent to counter with. And assuming that special forces and initial bombing runs are able to prevent Zanzibar's own stealth attackers from getting airborne (failure to do so would essentially mean failure for the whole operation not only directly for the invading force but also for targets Zanzibar would use nuclear weapons against), and everything I already mentioned goes well, they could capture Zanzibar.

I don't know if Metal Gear D was their only means of launching nukes though. I doubt it; they probably have silos, mobile launch platforms, and I'd bet that "D" is a production number rather than a model number, which would mean, if so, that there are at least four nuclear-equipped Metal Gears. All of these would also have to be destroyed, which would be a special forces kind of task if the air force isn't able to get deep enough into Zanzibar's airspace.

It'd probably be a fairly easy and quick victory if the invading force was large enough, organized enough, and well-supplied. But that's if all conditions are ideal. There's a lot more to it, obviously, but that's the quick & dirty of how an invasion could kick off.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
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10-29-2016, 10:16 AM
Post: #17
RE: I have stolen all the world's nukes, and you better do what I say!
I don't think that there were supposed to be more Metal Gears there. There's a lot of emphasis on Metal Gear D, so that might be the working prototype, and they're planning on making more. In addition to everything you said, Zanzibar Land is also the only real nuclear power in the world, with someone in charge who wouldn't hesitate to launch, especially if everything was going badly, so wouldn't that have to be factored in? What if Big Boss was about to lose and figured he'd just launch his nukes and kill as many people as he could?
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10-29-2016, 10:21 AM
Post: #18
RE: I have stolen all the world's nukes, and you better do what I say!
He probably wouldn't be directly in charge of firing, but would give the authority to fire to a trusted subbordinant who'd fire either on order or in a certain event. Even if it was only Metal Gear that was capable of launching, Big Boss wasn't the pilot, so Fox would have had the authority to launch.

Big Boss was a soldier and political head; they weren't just a bunch of madmen, and had to have had a hierarchy of command to follow.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
QUOTE
10-29-2016, 09:51 PM (This post was last modified: 10-29-2016 09:53 PM by DarthCaligula.)
Post: #19
RE: I have stolen all the world's nukes, and you better do what I say!
Well, yeah, I get that he's the CO of his private military nation and that there would be a chain of command, but Big Boss is the one in charge, so it would be his decision when to launch, like you were talking about.
This is actually something that I wonder about in MGS1. Shouldn't it be suspicious to everyone that after Snake's killed a few members of Foxhound and made his presence known that Liquid still hasn't ordered the nukes to be fired? I mean, Liquid is threatening that if his demands aren't met, he'll launch his nuke, but he's just letting Snake kill everyone and destroy his place. The truth was that Ocelot intentionally killed Anderson because he recognized Ocelot, so they didn't have a way to launch, but then Psycho Mantis came up with the idea to manipulate whoever they sent in so then they could find out the truth either from this guy working things out, or by hearing it from his support staff, but it's not like any of Snake's allies would have any clue about that.
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10-30-2016, 05:09 AM
Post: #20
RE: I have stolen all the world's nukes, and you better do what I say!
The guy in charge doesn't make every songle decision. He appoints trusted subbordinates the authority to make decisions on his behalf. If not, simply killing Big Boss would be enough to totally end the war.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
QUOTE
11-08-2016, 08:25 PM
Post: #21
RE: I have stolen all the world's nukes, and you better do what I say!
Fiddle
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11-08-2016, 08:36 PM
Post: #22
RE: I have stolen all the world's nukes, and you better do what I say!
Holy peeking duck fuck, you're twice as useless as an asshole on the elbow aren't you?

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
QUOTE
11-08-2016, 09:42 PM (This post was last modified: 11-08-2016 09:55 PM by THEND.)
Post: #23
RE: I have stolen all the world's nukes, and you better do what I say!
I'll chime if you like

In Metal Gear 2, Solid Snake infiltrates a compound that is deeply embedded within the borders of a foreign nation, enemy state. That is probably what stands out by comparison to the other games.
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11-09-2016, 05:24 AM
Post: #24
RE: I have stolen all the world's nukes, and you better do what I say!
Except for MG1, MGS3, MGS4, Peace Walker, Ground Zeroes and Phantom Pain.

But aside from all of those...

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
QUOTE
11-09-2016, 06:27 AM
Post: #25
RE: I have stolen all the world's nukes, and you better do what I say!
Okay. In any of those, which ones have diplomatic risks?
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11-09-2016, 06:56 AM
Post: #26
RE: I have stolen all the world's nukes, and you better do what I say!
...not...sure...if...serious...

...do you even know what you're asking? I'm starting to hate the fuck out of you...

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
QUOTE
11-09-2016, 09:02 AM
Post: #27
RE: I have stolen all the world's nukes, and you better do what I say!
Arguments of course can be made about The Big Shell.

I read your conversation with the original poster and your arguments. it is like you're describing a conflict between a hostile nation and another powerful one. That makes me think, that unlike most of the games where an operative is sent to clean up a mess in its own backyard, in Metal Gear 2, the problem is with the head of the nation itself.

MG1, MGS2, MGS1, and in a way MGS4, all are situations where the player's target is a head of an operation that once eliminated means the halting of that operation.

By the time Liquid Ocelot comes into existence and takes control of the SOP system, Zanzibar Land could have built an entire infrastructure on the ashes of Big Boss' dream and continued to exist.
Grey Fox, Big Boss (whichever), 4Horsemen, etc...are all dead but they were the elite ruling guard, right? Should the nation itself cease to exist on the death of its idol?
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11-09-2016, 10:05 AM
Post: #28
RE: I have stolen all the world's nukes, and you better do what I say!
Well look at you, with your well-thought out points and shit. You're like a somewhat useful person suddenly!

The big difference between the terrorist incidents in games like MGS2, for instance, and a legit military operation in, say, MG2, is that hierarchy. The bosses in MG2 aren't commanders or in charge of anything - they're just the big-name mercenaries, the hit squad, so to speak. But the actual Zanzibarian military has to operate with a standard structure; Big Boss dying would simply promote everyone in the chain by one level, and Big Boss isn't actively calling the shots - SOPs exist far in advance that are understood by everyone so that when an incident occurs, nobody has to wait for Orders to come down; they already know how to react. Big Boss is the Commander, and even though we never see a command stricture outside of that one asshole Officer you have to follow through the jungle, realistically, it has to exist.

In contrast, Sons of Liberty are just a terrorist organization. The leader knows his plan and calls the shots, and without him, the subordinates are clueless. Taking out the leader kills the whole plan, but that's not the case with an armed nation-state.

Think of POTUS. If you kill the President, the US doesn't just screech to a halt; everyone below the President know what the big picture is, they all move up one rung of the ladder, and keep the plan in motion as best they can. Zanziber, technically, should be no different.

I'm also taking some liberties with the idea that Zanziber, as a nation, isn't just two buildings in the middle of the desert. That's all we see in the game, but there has to be more to it realistically. The instruction manual does go into Zanzibar's overall size, economy, and so forth if I recall correctly, which isn't cover in-game, so there is more to it than meets the eye. You can't expect an MSX2 game from 1991 to match the level of sophistocation of something like Skyrim, afterall. Even Shadow Moses and The Big Shell make no physical sense in terms of what we actually see for ourselves, nor does the enemy command structure seem to actually have any bearing on anything whatsoever, but that's all just game-isms.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
QUOTE
11-09-2016, 10:59 AM
Post: #29
RE: I have stolen all the world's nukes, and you better do what I say!
So in other words it would be cool if the region was still a part of the series timeline given the creators (THE ONE TRUE CREATORS) were to continue.

Seems MGSV was about keeping, the legend. In short, going against that would probably be redundant.

Thanks for the compliment.

To see a contrast like the one you described would be something. It is not something that I have seen in a military-based title.

MGS2's Raiden turns the hero myth legend on its head, literally eh?

I see what you mean about a chain of command. An emergency would probably cause a stir but hopefully there would be a worst-case-scenario response planned.

That's cool you mentioned a game like Skyrim. I wonder if Kojima plays Skyrim.
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