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Hideo Kojima explains MGSV's story
10-27-2015, 07:01 PM
Post: #16
RE: Hideo Kojima explains MGSV's story
Problem is that the games are now designed with combat in mind, so many situations are overly complex to play without fucking with enemies. For instance, the guard in MGS3 guarding the entrance to the warehouse Hub between Granin, Fear and End.

You can do it, but it requires the player to do things not intended.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
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10-28-2015, 03:12 AM
Post: #17
RE: Hideo Kojima explains MGSV's story
Wasn't Vamp's origin connected to Stillman's church failure? Vamp's a Romanian so that incident couldn't be there unless Stillman happened to be around which seems unlikely so either that happened in the States or Vamp's powers are just there because he's a Romanian.

Ocelot's character...as a whole, in MGS2 he was still nice but MGS3 fucked it by turning him into a BB fanboy. Ocelot was Ocelot as the sick puppy he was, not as a cheerleader that seems now worse in TPP and people even think since some time ago that he's a hero (forgetting the never explained but imaginable things Meryl had to go when tortured).
Also, we never got to really kill Ocelot and make him pay for that hidden bomb in our stuff. I didn't wanted to puch a BB fanboy in MGS4 but that's what we got.
Regarding MGS2 in particular, I thought Liquid's arm was only ok because I like Liquid but from Ocelot's view it sucks because why the fuck he went to Liquid for an arm? Was it because the cold in Shadow Moses kept Liquid's body in perfect condictions?

My problem with MGS2 is the lack of proper gameplay, namely in terms of exploring an enemy base/place. Shadow Moses was nice but after playing MG2, only the really unique moments like Mantis, Wolf, Raven and Gray Fox remain and so Big Shell's replica of SM seems even more uninspired even if Kojima was trying to send a message. BS would've better if we got to explore Shell 2 and the bowels of the structures (and Arsenal) and also if we had night time setting.
Also, in MGS2, the true playtime was indeed scarce which coupled with my lack of love for the story, it turns the game the second one to think before start playing.

As for the Patriots, it was indeed better to let them as a mystery instead of having MGS3 explaining stuff and 4 turning FOX into a bunch of control freaks that despite not knowing the Boss were all deeply affected by her death. REX models would give us plenty of new stories and I think it would been better.

Canucklehead said that at least 4 continued the story of 2 but surprisingly we don't see new MG models and no explanations is given...in a sense, the world seemed like nuclear free.

[Image: Zanzibarlandsymbol.jpg]
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10-28-2015, 04:24 AM
Post: #18
RE: Hideo Kojima explains MGSV's story
Yeah, it's like as soon as they mentioned Metal Gear being a common thing around the world at the start of MGS2, they dropped it.

Vamp did have a backstory, but it was lame, had no depth, and made no sense.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
QUOTE
10-28-2015, 09:57 AM (This post was last modified: 10-28-2015 10:00 AM by jdnation.)
Post: #19
RE: Hideo Kojima explains MGSV's story
(10-28-2015 03:12 AM)Dr. Clark Wrote:  Wasn't Vamp's origin connected to Stillman's church failure? Vamp's a Romanian so that incident couldn't be there unless Stillman happened to be around which seems unlikely so either that happened in the States or Vamp's powers are just there because he's a Romanian.

I'm sure Vamp's origin story is part fact/part myth passed around as a legendary account amongst many people. Remember MGS2's themes where it's difficult to separate fact from fiction. Vamp's origin is part of that. Intended to be vague and mysterious which was Kojima's intent before fans started going waaah waaah, please explain everything, so he gave them nanomachines in MGS4 which is the only thing fit for their level.

Quote:Ocelot's character...as a whole, in MGS2 he was still nice but MGS3 fucked it by turning him into a BB fanboy. Ocelot was Ocelot as the sick puppy he was, not as a cheerleader that seems now worse in TPP and people even think since some time ago that he's a hero (forgetting the never explained but imaginable things Meryl had to go when tortured).

I agree here, though I also liked the Ocelot of MGS3, but would've liked a different character too. That's the trouble with prequels, usually we already set up in our own heads what we think about certain characters and their backstory which we as viewers fill in the blanks with and then doing a prequel upsets all that.

But players wanted more MGS with da snake and Kojima intended MGS2 to be the end with the possibility of the franchise continuing on with new protagonists. A prequel was the compromise.

Turning Ocelot into a fanboi of Snake was once again Kojima making fun of his audience. Ocelot also thinks he's hot shit, but routinely he gets outplayed by Snake. Though in the end he has the last laugh.


[
Quote:Regarding MGS2 in particular, I thought Liquid's arm was only ok because I like Liquid but from Ocelot's view it sucks because why the fuck he went to Liquid for an arm? Was it because the cold in Shadow Moses kept Liquid's body in perfect condictions?

No idea, ignoring MGS3 & 4, the Liquid arm thing also fit in with MGS2's mindfuckery of not being able to tell fact and fiction apart.

Also I suspect that as is typical with sequels and Kojima & MGS2's theme of subverting expectations - sequels usually entertain returning fan favourite characters, such as Ocelot for example (another reason I believe he was in 3). And one of the other favourite characters of MGS1 was Liquid. But how do you bring back a dead character? This was once again MGS2's method of subverting expectations, especially given Liquid & Vulcan's teasing in MGS2 trailers.

And as you yourself said, and as fan and corporate expectations usually demand of sequels, they want their same favourite things that they liked from previous games coming back and doing the same thing over and over and over again.

Sometimes formulaic things work, sometimes they only serve to dilute things or sometimes fans won't be happy with what they get. So it is wholly ironic in many ways that the precise criticisms of MGS2 are in fact its thematic strengths in many cases.

It's personally why I love the game, despite any faults it does contain. But it's easy to critique it looking back from where we are in the gameplay department. Back then it was a completely mindblowing experience the first time around.

Quote:As for the Patriots, it was indeed better to let them as a mystery instead of having MGS3 explaining stuff and 4 turning FOX into a bunch of control freaks that despite not knowing the Boss were all deeply affected by her death. REX models would give us plenty of new stories and I think it would been better.

Completely agree. But you know how the fanbois are, they need the explanations. I feel it's still Kojima's fault for giving in to them, and particularly he kind of led us on with his typical end codec surprises. But the Patriots could've easily been a group that went away a long time ago with others succeeding them, and there was no reason for Portable Ops/MGS4 to do what they did. But MGS4 was largely Kojima pissed off at having to go through the motions, so I do and I don't blame him, but everything was in his hands to go somewhere better with the material that could've still been simple, and he didn't.


Quote:Canucklehead said that at least 4 continued the story of 2 but surprisingly we don't see new MG models and no explanations is given...in a sense, the world seemed like nuclear free.

This was largely a result of SOP and a complete lock down and control of all technology. Zero/The Patriots in that sense achieved this purpose. The question of course becomes that despite that the threat of nuclear war is potentially gone, is the current state of freedom worth it? Many parallels today with regards to gun-control. The irony is that the perpetual war economy was still deemed necessary by the gun controllers. And of course conflicts still existed. So while the threat of nukes and Metal Gear was largely gone, was this what Snake and Otacon were fighting for?
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10-28-2015, 11:43 AM (This post was last modified: 10-28-2015 11:49 AM by Dr. Clark.)
Post: #20
RE: Hideo Kojima explains MGSV's story
(10-28-2015 09:57 AM)jdnation Wrote:  I'm sure Vamp's origin story is part fact/part myth passed around as a legendary account amongst many people. Remember MGS2's themes where it's difficult to separate fact from fiction. Vamp's origin is part of that. Intended to be vague and mysterious which was Kojima's intent before fans started going waaah waaah, please explain everything, so he gave them nanomachines in MGS4 which is the only thing fit for their level.

I asked that because I never saw someone directly linking the two (although by now, that fact passes by when talking of MGS2). I don't mind Vamp's original past to be a mysterious thing, it makes for a nice touch and adds interest in trying to figure out, just like people don't know how the fuck Mantis has his powers. The only thing that I like in MGS4's Vamp is the new look and personality, except for the legs suit which I don't know if this is some trolling because Vamp could already make amazing jumps in MGS2 (is it to play with Raiden's high heels?).


(10-28-2015 09:57 AM)jdnation Wrote:  I agree here, though I also liked the Ocelot of MGS3, but would've liked a different character too. That's the trouble with prequels, usually we already set up in our own heads what we think about certain characters and their backstory which we as viewers fill in the blanks with and then doing a prequel upsets all that.

But players wanted more MGS with da snake and Kojima intended MGS2 to be the end with the possibility of the franchise continuing on with new protagonists. A prequel was the compromise.

Turning Ocelot into a fanboi of Snake was once again Kojima making fun of his audience. Ocelot also thinks he's hot shit, but routinely he gets outplayed by Snake. Though in the end he has the last laugh.

Does he have the last laugh? In the end we have this state of things because Kojima was always trying to teach or pass something and now that Kojima has become well known with some gamers coming to MGS because it's what's rocking and open-world stuff with base and tanks but are now butthurted because how TPP is and are wishing Kojima went to Hell (from God to devil), in the end was it worth? I seriously would like to know what his wife and child(dren) think of the guy who spent so much time with a series and lately with sexy women doing mo-cap.

As for Ocelot, the only thing that I still question is who the fuck is the real EVA. Kojima was probably so worried with Ocelot backstabbing and EVA that he forgot to even mention anything. By MGS3 I was tired of having Ocelot in front of me and not being able to shoot the motherfucker and see him bleed to death.

About Snake, I want (and would've) more MG but it doesn't need to be with Snake (never was) and it doesn't need to be Kojima and all that whining is what brough "us" to this state of affairs.

(10-28-2015 09:57 AM)jdnation Wrote:  No idea, ignoring MGS3 & 4, the Liquid arm thing also fit in with MGS2's mindfuckery of not being able to tell fact and fiction apart.

Also I suspect that as is typical with sequels and Kojima & MGS2's theme of subverting expectations - sequels usually entertain returning fan favourite characters, such as Ocelot for example (another reason I believe he was in 3). And one of the other favourite characters of MGS1 was Liquid. But how do you bring back a dead character? This was once again MGS2's method of subverting expectations, especially given Liquid & Vulcan's teasing in MGS2 trailers.

And as you yourself said, and as fan and corporate expectations usually demand of sequels, they want their same favourite things that they liked from previous games coming back and doing the same thing over and over and over again.

Sometimes formulaic things work, sometimes they only serve to dilute things or sometimes fans won't be happy with what they get. So it is wholly ironic in many ways that the precise criticisms of MGS2 are in fact its thematic strengths in many cases.

It's personally why I love the game, despite any faults it does contain. But it's easy to critique it looking back from where we are in the gameplay department. Back then it was a completely mindblowing experience the first time around.

Kojima could have just went with Liquid faking his death or the nanomachines not working propely and Liquid surviving the attack. In the end, Liquid's body was a whore, with the arm going for Ocelot, the rest serving as a double to fake Snake's death aboard the tanker and surprisingly it was still recovered from whoever was holding it to be used in BB's plastic surgery. C'mon, what a fate!! I can understand the reason in MGS2 but even so, in MGS we already had him surviving the Hind's crash without an explanation!

I can understand the experience as a whole, but as far as Big Shell goes, I could never like it because I hate aquatic levels in games and stuff related. The Tanker seemed ok and I found it frightening in a good way but "Big Orange Box Shelly"? No, the only time I liked was when seeing it at night and when it went to piece due to Arsenal.

(10-28-2015 09:57 AM)jdnation Wrote:  Completely agree. But you know how the fanbois are, they need the explanations. I feel it's still Kojima's fault for giving in to them, and particularly he kind of led us on with his typical end codec surprises. But the Patriots could've easily been a group that went away a long time ago with others succeeding them, and there was no reason for Portable Ops/MGS4 to do what they did. But MGS4 was largely Kojima pissed off at having to go through the motions, so I do and I don't blame him, but everything was in his hands to go somewhere better with the material that could've still been simple, and he didn't.

Again, I don't think in the end it was worth it and 4 is just the work of an upset child. The fanboys are as they are, the torch wasn't exactly passed. What the fuck was Kojima doing as Vice-president? Couldn't he have his guys make a Ghost Babel like game for them to try making an MGS? I have a GBA and DSLite and would have loved to see a title there.

(10-28-2015 09:57 AM)jdnation Wrote:  This was largely a result of SOP and a complete lock down and control of all technology. Zero/The Patriots in that sense achieved this purpose. The question of course becomes that despite that the threat of nuclear war is potentially gone, is the current state of freedom worth it? Many parallels today with regards to gun-control. The irony is that the perpetual war economy was still deemed necessary by the gun controllers. And of course conflicts still existed. So while the threat of nukes and Metal Gear was largely gone, was this what Snake and Otacon were fighting for?

Even with SOP, what the fuck happened to the REX models? I think it was just another case like OILIX and Big Mama's comment about oil price in which it was simply forgotten and people were distracted with Gekkos, dwarf Gekkos and the Snakes' face atop Haven. OR...nanomachines did the work! Big Grin

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10-28-2015, 05:18 PM (This post was last modified: 10-28-2015 07:19 PM by jdnation.)
Post: #21
RE: Hideo Kojima explains MGSV's story
(10-28-2015 11:43 AM)Dr. Clark Wrote:  Again, I don't think in the end it was worth it and 4 is just the work of an upset child. The fanboys are as they are, the torch wasn't exactly passed. What the fuck was Kojima doing as Vice-president? Couldn't he have his guys make a Ghost Babel like game for them to try making an MGS? I have a GBA and DSLite and would have loved to see a title there.

Kojima tried to pass the torch, but it seems his protege, Shinta Nojiri, that he was counting on to carry it wasn't interested.

The team he left to do MGS3 also seemed to be messing up when Kojima had to step back in.

Pressure to tie up MGS2 due to fan demand also necessitated Kojima coming back for MGS4, which Kojima still didn't seem keen on, and tried to emphasize that he was closing the damn story with everything from there being 'No place for Hideo' to Solid Snake being a tired cynical old man on the verge of death standing in a graveyard, to the 'economy' becoming routine where it feels like doing the same damn things over and over again.

Kojima was also displeased with Portable Ops which he left the team to do, having to then follow that up himself with Peace Walker. And while he was working on Peace Walker, the team was still screwing up with RISING.

Then plans to revitalize Konami's gaming division at the time, an expensive undertaking, meant of course do so under the banner of MGSV, meaning Kojima had to put the kibosh on any new IP ideas, and directly oversee FOX, giving RISING's failure as the first FOX game which then went to Platinum.


Quote:Even with SOP, what the fuck happened to the REX models? I think it was just another case like OILIX and Big Mama's comment about oil price in which it was simply forgotten and people were distracted with Gekkos, dwarf Gekkos and the Snakes' face atop Haven. OR...nanomachines did the work! Big Grin

By MGS2, while Metal Gear tech had proliferated, it had also likewise become obsolete. Ray technically was an 'Anti-Metal Gear' housed within a gigantic carrier Metal Gear - Arsenal Gear. Philantrophy was also likewise set up to get rid of Metal Gear tech that was on the black market, so while the design docs seemed to have gone around, it probably wasn't that extensive, after all, the tech would still be difficult to build and nukes are still hard to come by, so at best, only large first world nations would be capable to building these and mass manufacturing them. And given Arsenal and Ray's presence, these were America's deterrent. We were never given the opportunity to go abroad to see what else may have been out there. I suspect that that little detail and possibility was left for future Kojima-less games to pursue, far removed from Solid Snake and the U.S.

MGS4 is the game that goes on to be very inconsistent and contradict much of what came before whereas prior games, despite a few minor holes here and there, were more or less very consistent. But with the presence of stuff like the Gekkous, the technology behind Metal Gear seems to have been improved and utilized into lots of other smaller projects now used by PMCs, so already we see the impact of having Metal Gear designs on the black market which have been iterated upon.

MGS4 was once again involved with Kojima closing the book on MGS2 rather than introduce any new complications or antagonists. Even MGS4's bosses are an afterthought without any overall relevance to the story like MGS1 & 2. Even MGS3's bosses at least felt like there was an intimate relationship between themselves and the Boss.

So with that in mind, Kojima likely didn't want to make MGS4's story any more complicated by introducing new things in an already bloated storyline that just served to fulfil fan expectations. But overall, by MGS4's period it seems that Metal Gear tech was obsolete in an era where all weapons, technology and high outfit military groups are under total control. The Patriots primary purpose was to control information, so very likely any threat posed by foreign Metal Gears was manipulated and squashed by the Patriots. Liquid Ocelot was seeking to put an end to that.


____________________________________________________________________

UPDATE: Famitsu says Kojima is hiding something with regards to MGSV's ending? Apparently the article contains spoilers, so I didn't read it:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1131192
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10-29-2015, 05:08 AM
Post: #22
RE: Hideo Kojima explains MGSV's story
^ I clicked that link and found nothing but shit, but then on that page there was a link to this:

https://vs642.wordpress.com/2015/09/22/c...faced-lie/

Worth reading, I think. I still say the whole transition from Diamond Dogs to Outer Heaven could have been a bit more fleshed out.

-
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11-15-2015, 09:38 PM (This post was last modified: 11-15-2015 09:39 PM by Snake_Plissken.)
Post: #23
RE: Hideo Kojima explains MGSV's story
The only way to unlock Chapter 3: Peace is to disable every nuke on the platforms server.

The reason data-miners never found it is because he new PC would never achieve this due to online cheaters/hackers/moders and Konami's lack of giving a shit about cheating online, so he decided to removed it on the PC version which is why it was able to release 15 days sooner than originally intended.

It is possible on other platforms though, that is why the data on those discs are bigger than the PC version.

That is what Kojima is talking about. He believes in us, but unfortunately we are going to let him down.

Chapter 3 is only 3 missions though and it ends with the Kingdom of Flies cutscene. He gave us a taste of it in case we never unlock it because honestly if we can't work together as a community to disarm every nuke we don't deserve the true final ending.
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11-16-2015, 02:37 PM (This post was last modified: 11-16-2015 02:50 PM by sput.)
Post: #24
RE: Hideo Kojima explains MGSV's story
Snake Plissken confirmed: complete idiot

Benny Harvey, RIP
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11-17-2015, 11:40 AM
Post: #25
RE: Hideo Kojima explains MGSV's story
It is just a theory. Fuck off sput
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11-18-2015, 08:37 PM
Post: #26
RE: Hideo Kojima explains MGSV's story
You're giving them too much credit.

Benny Harvey, RIP
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11-19-2015, 03:26 PM
Post: #27
RE: Hideo Kojima explains MGSV's story
You ever think that was the original intention before they told him to hurry up and finish?
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11-19-2015, 04:14 PM
Post: #28
RE: Hideo Kojima explains MGSV's story
No.

At least, I don't think Kojima is that dumb.

Benny Harvey, RIP
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11-23-2015, 12:39 AM (This post was last modified: 11-23-2015 12:42 AM by The Man.)
Post: #29
RE: Hideo Kojima explains MGSV's story
(10-27-2015 04:27 PM)Canucklehead Wrote:  I thought the main downfall to the series that the change in tone. MG2 & MGS1 were so gritty, dark, and the supernatural/unrealistic elements weren't over-the-top and in-your-face.

Black Ninja, The Running Man, grown men fighting over a game cartirdge and Frank/Gustava's ice-skating love story sure were gritty. And nothing says "not in your face" like a gimp with a gasmask telling you what's on your memory card. Of course they were two of the best games in the series along with part quatro if you weren't a crybaby but it had to do with a lot more than that.
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11-23-2015, 05:18 AM
Post: #30
RE: Hideo Kojima explains MGSV's story
Tone, motherfucker.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
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