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Heroes who torture, rape, and murder. MGSV theory
01-28-2014, 05:46 PM
Post: #1
Heroes who torture, rape, and murder. MGSV theory
So I was thinking about this today after listening to this edited version of Sins of the Father yesterday (sorry, this is one part of HTML I don't know. The embedding of videos): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdfTC5BgxIQ
I was thinking of Quiet and how it seems to show her being tortured by Ocelot in the trailer. Listening to the lyrics of Sins of the Father, it seems to suggest that the characters are going to be total bastards, the old heroes of Big Boss's time turning into the monsters we see later, like in Big Boss's speech to Snake in Zanzibar Land. What I was thinking is that the trailers seem to suggest that Quiet is going to be an enemy of Big Boss in the game, likely a boss you have to fight.
So what I'm thinking about Quiet specifically is that she might start off as some weird enemy of theirs who can change her pigment to create a sort of natural camouflage and all that, she's fighting in an army that opposes Big Boss, and that they capture her. As it seems to show in the trailer she is tortured by Ocelot and this torture is overseen by Miller and Big Boss, and not just shocked, but also repeatedly raped by Big Boss's soldiers. I'm thinking that eventually she manages to escape and is then hellbent killing Big Boss and his allies.
So basically what I'm getting at is that Quiet is somewhat a character that normally we would play as in a game, and that we are playing as the guys who would be the bad guys typically. We will play as the evil overlord, spreading death and misery across the land, with our sick, despicable friends helping us along. Maybe several of the bosses in the game will fit this model, people who we would normally play as in a game, fighting this evil army, but instead they all fall as our hero continues on ruining the world.
From what I understand, in this game Big Boss also has an enemy called Cypher, who is actually Zero, and because of MGS4, the Patriots are now Big Boss and his old friends from Operation Snake Eater. So Big Boss and Zero have grown apart and are now fighting each other, so I figure that Zero is also some horrible bastard, pretty much as bad as Big Boss, so this would mean that we are playing bad guys fighting bad guys, with some traumatized would-be heroes trying to either stop this insanity or just plain get revenge on either Big Boss, Cypher, or both.
It makes me wonder also, I can't remember if Big Boss raised child soldiers himself, he at least took war orphans in in Zanzibar Land to turn them into the next generation of killers, but if Big Boss did raise child soldiers himself I wonder if there could be missions where we go to kill some rival small army to steal supplies of cocaine and such to make brown brown to keep our child soldiers drugged up and controllable.
So what I'm wondering if this is the "taboo" subject that Kojima was talking about. Not pretending that our hero is likeable at all, but just playing someone who is completely unredeemable and unforgivable, and we play the game helping him commit war crimes and murder innocent people. Sure, you could say that we already have games like GTA where we play as horrible murderers, but in those games it seems like they want us to like the main character rather than hate him for being the monster he is (this is actually somewhat of a complaint I have now about what GTA's turned into. I think they're trying to be too serious. I'm an old school GTA fan who remembers GTA2 and thinks of that as the ultimate GTA experience and who in recent years has finally come to terms that it will never go back to that old carefree fun). This game will have us play a horrible person doing horrible things and not sugar it up and make us think that maybe it's justified or anything, that's what I'm wondering.

Of course, I've also got a strong feeling that I'm hoping for too much. What I'm describing is pretty much what I've wanted in a Big Boss game from the beginning. Back when Snake Eater was announced to take place in the 60's I was excited to have us play as Big Boss and finally see his philosophy, but instead he was pretty much a lot like Solid Snake at that point. I'm not really complaining about that, because I appreciate how it showed how someone like Solid Snake could become someone like Big Boss.
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01-28-2014, 07:59 PM
Post: #2
RE: Heroes who torture, rape, and murder. MGSV theory
I don't think it has to show it for it to be disturbing.....and honestly i don't think it has to be depicted AT ALL for them to convey the horrors of rape. If anything, the inferrences made in mgs4 were probably some of the better done ones since you don't really know if the character was raped or not, sorta like meryl in mgs1 .

I don't know where you got all this stuff about quiet the one being raped by big boss's men. We all know ocelot is sadomasochistic or at least becomes so.

I could see the "joy of war" being a theme, sure...but i really don't want to be caught playing a videogame where either the player or some ally of his is raping an enemy as a means to achieve some goal. I'm all for depicting horrors but there's a limit and it needs to be done right .

Personally, I would rather it be a part of the rift between BB and Ocelot rather than a means to an end. There will be torture and there has been at least some bit of torture in every game. That's as far as they need to go. If there is any "sexual violence" in the game as the rating suggests at least let it be hinted at....Seriously kojima will hardly dodge the flack for showing something like that.

I know at least one or two of you will disagree with me when I say this but if he allows it to either be interactive or simply graphically conveyed, it will be considered a "rape sim"...there's no way around the riskiness of that monicker.

Like you though I'm curious to see how he handles the child soldier plot. Obviously Blood diamonds would have to factor in somehow. Raiden's history in Zanzibar is depicted in a victim way and same for grey fox. I would imagine big boss's military would be something of an alternative to the blood diamond militias and things like that just considering how big boss's games since PO have been based around recruitment.

I like what you say about bb and zero both basically being villians with the good guys being non-essential characters stuck in the middle. If we're able to do missions over various regions, that would make sense. I imagine as Mercenaries the plot of Big Boss would be indifferent to whatever regional conflict is taking place and the gameplay would basically allow you to invade a regions conflict and ask people to join your own struggle assuming you're always fighting against/between two we don't know.

Smells like a possible switcheroo is afoot.
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01-28-2014, 08:55 PM
Post: #3
RE: Heroes who torture, rape, and murder. MGSV theory
I don't mean that there would be interactive rape or even that it's depicted. Imagine a scene with Quiet having a bag on her head, she's just been shocked with those prods that Ocelot used in the trailer, beaten up, all that, and Miller is watching. Big Boss comes in to speak with Miller and as they're leaving the room to discuss something in private, some soldiers come in. Big Boss and Miller leave the room and as they are leaving, we hear Quiet being raped from the room they just left, that's more what I mean.
I also forgot to mention that my idea of Big Boss and all them turning into horrible monsters also goes with the fact that these games have consistently depicted war as something terrible and not fun. I can think of some examples as far back as Metal Gear 2, but the best example to me is in Metal Gear Solid right after Meryl gets shot by Wolf. "I was a fool. I wanted to be a soldier. But war is ugly, there's nothing glamorous about it."
So what I mean is that we're going to see the ugly truth about war, rather than the Hollywood version that most games show, as if war is something fun.
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01-29-2014, 02:40 PM
Post: #4
RE: Heroes who torture, rape, and murder. MGSV theory
(01-28-2014 08:55 PM)DarthCaligula Wrote:  ...rather than the Hollywood version that most games show, as if war is something fun.

yeah i culd see that happening. since kojima said the press is a bunch of trolls chances are it'll be cool
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