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Here, MGS5, this is how airdroppping armored vehicles works in Real Life.
09-22-2015, 01:25 PM (This post was last modified: 09-22-2015 01:31 PM by Victor Katilis.)
Post: #1
Here, MGS5, this is how airdroppping armored vehicles works in Real Life.
Starts at 0:18 with a key moment at 0:48



But seriously, anyone but me feels that a 45-60 ton tank being dropped on a tiny parachute looks fucking retarded?
I also find it dumbfounding that in a series with such meticulous attention to detail, and considering the fact that the setting involves Russian (!) Airborne (!) troops in Afghanistan - nobody thought to research and introduce stuff like in the video. Not only it would of looked infinitely cooler, it could also introduce balance mechanics such as loud noise of the rocket boosters.

But what am I saying, the guards in this game cannot notice a fucking APC being fultoned off from 50m away.

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09-22-2015, 02:10 PM (This post was last modified: 09-22-2015 02:23 PM by sput.)
Post: #2
RE: Here, MGS5, this is how airdroppping armored vehicles works in Real Life.
(09-22-2015 01:25 PM)Victor Katilis Wrote:  I also find it dumbfounding that in a series with such meticulous attention to detail...

What about the giant walking tanks and people with supernatural powers? If you're floored by any of the silliness from this franchise 10+ games in, then I don't know what to tell you. You should have EXPECTED this by now.

Granted though, a tank coming in on such a small balloon is almost as dumb as the clown car shit from peace walker.

Benny Harvey, RIP
QUOTE
09-22-2015, 02:28 PM (This post was last modified: 09-22-2015 06:10 PM by Victor Katilis.)
Post: #3
RE: Here, MGS5, this is how airdroppping armored vehicles works in Real Life.
Quote:What about the giant walking tanks and people with supernatural powers? If you're floored by any of the silliness from this franchise 10+ games in, then I don't know what to tell you. You should have EXPECTED this by now.

I swear, if I see this dumb fucking argument get used one more fucking time - I will start choking kittens one at a time each time it is used again.
That silliness fitted the previous game because of the way they played and the presentation. And it largely came subdued/as a side thing/easter egg - not fucking with the suspension of the disbelief. Here, not only the fulton is lazily implemented (the whole extraction package is supposed to be airdropped to you first ffs) and is the reason why gameplay has turned into the fucking Happy Farmers grind fest - it actually jars with pretty much everything else in regards to presentation in that game, rather tastelessly.

Even worse, it is so easy to make it at least swallowable. Had they used their heads at least for a second - they would of made it so that you attach balloons to the extraction targets (however many fultons you have) so that the balloons hover high up in the air (like it is supposed to work) then call for the Skylift flyby that would fly the patter and pick all of them up at once. Better then, you could introduce the upgrade where it make the balloons pop up by remote control only after you call the plane in - allowing for more surprise effect/stealth.

Not only would it look cooler, it would also require more planning and skill - all the while keeping the base management intact. Why has this or something along the lines not been done? The solution is on the fucking surface - all you have to do is watch one video of that thing in action.

I said it before and I am saying it again. Yes, Fulton is retarded. Yeah, sahelantropopulos gundam/evangelion ripoff bullshit is even more retarded. Yeah, the whole prologue/ what they did with Volgin, Mantis and the End is the pinnacle of idiocy.

At least in the previous games (before piss walker) the silliness was done with actual taste. Here it is just random retarded bullshit without any sense of moderation. This why the whole thing blows.

And honestly, did you watch the fucking video? If anything is OTT - that thing is. It could've easily been included if not for everyone's laziness at KojiPro.

Here, see - I am not bitching about silliness, but rather at the lack of attention to detail in a game within the franchise that had fucking mini cutscenes showing the main character performing first aid

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09-22-2015, 02:58 PM
Post: #4
RE: Here, MGS5, this is how airdroppping armored vehicles works in Real Life.
(09-22-2015 02:28 PM)Victor Katilis Wrote:  At least in the previous games (before piss walker) the silliness was done with actual taste. Here it is just random retarded bullshit without any sense of moderation. This why the whole thing blows.

Actual taste? What? If they had tried to explain all the powers and shit back in the day, it would still be random retarded bullshit. It would have blown back then, too.

I'm not arguing in favor of MGSV at all. It's been dumb since the beginning, it's dumb now, it will always be dumb.

(09-22-2015 02:28 PM)Victor Katilis Wrote:  And honestly, did you watch the fucking video? If anything is OTT - that thing is.

Yeah, I saw it. I wasn't expecting the thing to actually burst into flames. Was it to lighten the impact?

Benny Harvey, RIP
QUOTE
09-22-2015, 03:28 PM (This post was last modified: 09-22-2015 03:48 PM by Victor Katilis.)
Post: #5
RE: Here, MGS5, this is how airdroppping armored vehicles works in Real Life.
Quote:Actual taste? What? If they had tried to explain all the powers and shit back in the day, it would still be random retarded bullshit. It would have blown back then, too.
That is why I mentioned 'taste'. They had not tried to explain that shit. It was supposed to stay a mystery. That is taste. I should of also said 'before MGS4' instead of 'beforePiss Walker'

Quote:I wasn't expecting the thing to actually burst into flames. Was it to lighten the impact?
Yes. The package has a cluster of rocket engines looking downward that are set to go off moments before impact.
[Image: 425.jpg]

The previous version had no boosters - but that required the crew to be airdropped separately. With boosters, the impact is soft enough to airdrop the whole thing with the crew already strapped in. Alternatively, it allows to use less chutes - in turns allowing for faster deployment on the ground.

Those rocket-parachute systems come in grades depending on weight class/vehicle being dropped, too, here's an incomplete list (in chronological order from 1947 to present day):
Code:
- Ракетный парашют ПН-16 (1947г для груза 120кг)
- Парашютно-реактивная тормозная система П-36 (1951г для груза 1500кг)
- Парашютно-реактивная система ПН-81 (применяется с кабиной П-73 под Ту-2)
- Парашютно-реактивная система П-84 (1965г для ПП128-5000)
- Парашютно-реактивная система ПН-96 (1957г для груза 5000кг)
- Парашютно-реактивная система П-110 (применяется с кабиной П-110К (П-110-2500) под Ту-4Д для груза 2500кг )
- Парашютно-реактивная система ПН-116 (1961г для груза 20000кг)
- Парашютно-реактивная система П-130 (для груза 3500кг и ПП127М-3500. В серию пошёл под названием ПРС-3500)
- Парашютно-реактивная система П-136 (1962г для ПП127-3500)
- Парашютно-реактивная система П-141 (1965г для ПП128-5000)
- Парашютно-реактивная система П-142 (по всей видимости проект получил индекс П-150)
- Парашютно-реактивная система П-150 (для БМД-1)
- Парашютно-реактивная система П-150ПР
- Парашютно-реактивная система П-155 (для 2С2 "Фиалка")
- Парашютно-реактивная система П-156 (для ГАЗ-66 с лыжами)
- Парашютно-реактивная система П-162 (для БТР-Д)
- Парашютно-реактивная система ПРСМ-915 (для БМД-1)
- Парашютно-реактивная система ПРСМ-925 (для БТР-Д)
- Парашютно-реактивная система ПРСМ-916 (для БМД-2)
- Парашютно-реактивная система ПРСМ-926 (для 2С9 "НОНА")
- Парашютно-реактивная система ПН220 (с жестким креплением РДТТ на объекте)
- Парашютно-реактивная система П235 "Басня" (многокупольная, для БМП-3)
- Парашютно-реактивная система П260 (для 2С25 "Спрут-СД")

come think of it, could've been another development tree in MGS5

They (and Americans) also tried to do this:
[Image: pic_1.jpg]

But as you can imagine, this method is not possible everywhere.

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09-23-2015, 07:08 PM
Post: #6
RE: Here, MGS5, this is how airdroppping armored vehicles works in Real Life.
This is very interesting, love the video, thanks. But the game is hardly a manual or a documentary of anything... you can pinpoint with ridiculous accuracy where you want a tank to be dropped, and it happens faster than a pizza delivery, so really, I am not bothered.
Plus if they would have bothered to do this realistically... many, many people out there would have yelled "this is total bullshit! who would actually dump a tank like THAT!?? "
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09-23-2015, 07:29 PM (This post was last modified: 09-23-2015 08:00 PM by Victor Katilis.)
Post: #7
RE: Here, MGS5, this is how airdroppping armored vehicles works in Real Life.
My point was that you can do awesome OTT shit all the while keeping the attention to detail. I mean, MGS5 went for this ultra realistic antourage (that doesn't fit MGS at all, btw) - why not go for extra mile. You don't have to come up with ridiculous goofy bulllshit on your own, you just have to look around. That's what MGS always did before turning to shit. That's what Kojima that I used to know would have done.
Same with fake gun names, btw. WTF were they thinking.

My biggest gripe is fucking fulton though. Would be fine if they had it as an easter egg, but this shit is a core fucking mechanic. That shit should have stayed on mobile platforms. Actually, being goofy is not even its main problem. It is just lazy game design.

I posted above how easily the IRL fulton could be implemented in the game. Imagine strategically placing the bodies so that the plane could grab em all in one go, having to make the right pick up call at the right time. Observing the domino effect of the coons being yanked up in the air one by one.

If that isn't MGS, I do not know what its.

You could even get away with making stealthy before the airlift happens - if no one saw the balloon go up, no one would see it after at that altitude - humans don't look up 99% of the time. Fuck it, you could even make it prevent the goons from waking up (much like putting them in the toilet/car/dumpster would), with the only possibility of the body being discovered by someone else and cutting off the cable (and triggering a special alarm state similar to discovering a dead body)

You could then upgrade the plane to C-3 galaxy skyhook so that it could airlift tanks. You could even have a thing when snake has to go around the tank to attach the reinforced harness to all four corners - betcha it would feel like a fucking accomplishment actually managing to do that instead of just running up to it full retard and holding square.

It would actually make sense then to use the EMP mines. As of now - they are fucking useless as I can simply wait for an APC to drive past me, run in the middle of the road, shoot it in the back, run up to it before it turns its turret and extract it. It is not challenging or engaging, it feels the same as picking those dumb ass flowers.

If you make it a core mechanic, at least give it some effort to make it engaging.

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09-23-2015, 07:46 PM (This post was last modified: 09-23-2015 07:48 PM by PoisonSnake.)
Post: #8
RE: Here, MGS5, this is how airdroppping armored vehicles works in Real Life.
Yeah, I hear ya... but at some point the details go down the drain, especially the more ambitious the project gets, the more details are overlooked. And I kinda see this happening the more OTT a project goes, because at least to me, going over the top seems to carry a "fuck the details" necessity.
Kojima was a game designer to begin with. And at the end he is foremost a game designer. Clearly not a savvy writer or plot creator. And we know what he was a fan of. Movies that are OTT action and screw the details, and I am not a specialist for movies like "Guns of Navarone" or "Great Escape", but just as "Escape of New York" was total awesome bollocks from start to end, there is probably a lot of over-the-top-accuracy-drained stuff in those awesome suspense movies from WWII... like "Where Eagles Dare"...
Take Frederick Forsyth for comparison. His books are hardly filled with over the top action or plots... and they are pulled down by very earthy details. In fact some of Forsyth's books read like manuals. And thing is nobody is inspired by these books to make suspenseful videogames, and the movies made of them are blown out OTT stories... where details and accuracy are screwed -except for a few boring movies, which again are dragged by... detail and accuracy, like "Fourth Protocol" w Pierce Brosnan.
Here I prefer the carelessness of DIE HARD, or PREDATOR, any time.

And let's face it, the premise of MG ("solo infiltration of you name ir"), is already way OTT. All accuracy and attention to detail that follows such a blown out premise is really a strange blessing.
And uhm, you have a vet tranq gun. Try shooting a dart of those to someone's head. No need to point out, it hardly follows as in these games...
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09-23-2015, 08:09 PM (This post was last modified: 09-23-2015 08:13 PM by Victor Katilis.)
Post: #9
RE: Here, MGS5, this is how airdroppping armored vehicles works in Real Life.
I know all that shit, I am just venting. Had to type this shit down.

The old games, you simply rolled with it (Infinite Ammo, lol) cause that's the way they were. The POS we have today - it tries to be something more/else and fucking fails miserably. Hence the dissonance.

I probably wouldn't bat an eye if fulton happened as an easter egg or some shit in MGS2 or MGS3. Would still probably raise an eyebrow, but...

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09-26-2015, 04:15 PM
Post: #10
RE: Here, MGS5, this is how airdroppping armored vehicles works in Real Life.
Oh, yeah. Another thing with how shitty the MGS games are is probably because that one writer who helped Kojima tapped out after MGS3. Just been downhill since he left. His name was something like yashiro fukushima or something.

I think Kojima's writing process is that he comes up with all the characters, plot twists, and general craziness, while that other guy took all of Kojima's ideas and formed them into the frame of a good story. Most duos work that way. I hate using this example but Daft Punk does something like this; one guy writes and the other guy improves and adds on. Without that other guy around everything is a jumbled retarded mess.

Benny Harvey, RIP
QUOTE
09-26-2015, 11:08 PM (This post was last modified: 09-26-2015 11:41 PM by Victor Katilis.)
Post: #11
RE: Here, MGS5, this is how airdroppping armored vehicles works in Real Life.
Yeah. Tomokazu Fukushima.
I think I mentioned him here quite a while back.

EDIT: I did.
http://thesnakesoup.org/forums/Thread-Is...#pid252979
There is also a conspiracy nut in one of branches of Russian fandom who insists (aggressively not accepting any other viewpoint) that Kojima is really a hack and took all the credit for the classic MGS games from Fukushima (even though the latter was in every fucking credit roll in the same slates as Kojima) - to the point of actually shitting on MG1, MG2, Snatcher and Policenauts for having derivative plots and stealing stuff (yeah, he did), because those don't fit into his anti-Kojima/pro-Fukushima cult narrative.

I do believe that Fukushima was an integral part of the crew who helped put Kojima's ridiculous ideas and messages on paper/game engine in a way that wasn't borderline retarded. Because a lot of things point to it.


P.S. You're a cunt.

..!..

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09-27-2015, 02:26 AM (This post was last modified: 09-27-2015 02:33 AM by Dr. Clark.)
Post: #12
RE: Here, MGS5, this is how airdroppping armored vehicles works in Real Life.
While I won't argue by saying that what you were expecting was wrong due to REX, Mantis and other stuff - because that was acceptable within the MG universe -, I'm surprised that you were expecting something decent after 4 and PW!
That said, I can understand how you were expecting more detail into fultoning tanks due to PW net, the one that when you "fire", it drops four "terminals" and once the tank is over their space, it releases an electrical discharge and you have to turn on the four terminals. Yeah, it was more believable than just having one amazing balloon for all your war needs.
Also, you were speaking about fulton soldiers in one go? Kojima could very well use PO system and let us fill a truck with soldiers and then fulton the truck! But since PO wasn't a Kojima's game then it's shit, despite having a better story and characters than Piss Wanker.

Strangely enough, people seem to be really playing this game for gameplay only because no one is taking about how even by Kojima's standards, V's story is fucked up. I mean, Zero was trying to establish FOX and now he has an entire second unit ready to fill in and ahead of FOX to the point where the Boss doesn't know? Then why come the Virtuous mission failed when Zero didn't knew about the Boss' mission? What happened to the fact that it was due to the Boss' info that th Virtuous mission came to be?

Edit: what happened to the fact that Mantis wore a mask to prevent people's thoughts from getting into his head? Fuck V! People might say that this game is like this way due to Konami but I'm betting Kojima also has a part in this shitty story.

[Image: Zanzibarlandsymbol.jpg]
QUOTE
09-27-2015, 02:40 AM (This post was last modified: 09-27-2015 02:41 AM by SexyKaz.)
Post: #13
RE: Here, MGS5, this is how airdroppping armored vehicles works in Real Life.
Quote:what happened to the fact that Mantis wore a mask to prevent people's thoughts from getting into his head? Fuck V! People might say that this game is like this way due to Konami but I'm betting Kojima also has a part in this shitty story.
Pretty sure there's a casette tape explaing that exact thing.
QUOTE
09-27-2015, 04:08 AM
Post: #14
RE: Here, MGS5, this is how airdroppping armored vehicles works in Real Life.
(09-26-2015 11:08 PM)Victor Katilis Wrote:  P.S. You're a cunt.


[Image: irlc.png]

Did you not notice?

Benny Harvey, RIP
QUOTE
09-27-2015, 09:56 PM (This post was last modified: 09-27-2015 11:04 PM by Victor Katilis.)
Post: #15
RE: Here, MGS5, this is how airdroppping armored vehicles works in Real Life.
Tht is IRL Though...

Quote:I'm surprised that you were expecting something decent after 4 and PW!
That's the thing though, I wasn't expecting anything decent at all. I still wanna rant about it regardless, and provoke an actual discussion. Isn't that what forums are about.
I was actually saving that rant ever since the first demos popped up.

Quote:That said, I can understand how you were expecting more detail into fultoning tanks due to PW net, the one that when you "fire", it drops four "terminals" and once the tank is over their space, it releases an electrical discharge and you have to turn on the four terminals. Yeah, it was more believable than just having one amazing balloon for all your war needs.

That would actually be a cool idea for an upgrade. Incapacitate, then call in the guys. Tactical Espionage Operations as they are.

Quote:Also, you were speaking about fulton soldiers in one go? Kojima could very well use PO system and let us fill a truck with soldiers and then fulton the truck!
Nah. Watch this shit:




That is all we needed. Imagine a scenario like: Infiltrate the shit out of the base, set up multiple baloons, call in a recovery sortie, then leave in 'Cool guys don't look at recoveries' fashion. Or even Fulton yourself alongside the suckers - btw, why the fuck can't you fulton yourself in V? Huh, Kojima?

Not as tedious as a truck, more challenging and requiring more planning than the fucking Piss Walker leftover POS we got in V (this is what boggles my mind - they had this awesome footage on their hands, yet the still made it into this stupid retarded moronic shit). You can even leave the dumbass screams in, it still yanks them up into the air at huge speed. The footage even shows two guy being lifted with the help of one balloon - here, another idea of what to upgrade. There, I just proved you can have it all-included.

Hell, make it a special Recovery Team back on MB, specializing in just that - extractions, with their platform featuring airstrips (quantity and capacity upgradeable to take on a C-17 Globemaster and ultimately a C-5 galaxy for vehicle recoveries) for Skyhooks and an actual brig you can visit on one of the extra platforms.

Then have a fucking side-op to steal a Soviet AN-225 - where half of the mission would be infiltrating its massive interior to reach the cockpit - andyou get to keep every guy you neutralized inside it, including the badass S++ ranked Recovery Team member chief-pilot.

Then force Huey refit it for S.T.A.R.S., for your ultimate fulton pleasure.

How cool would that be.
And it is totally trivial to implement again. Hell, it is not even outlandish again, considering this shit:




See, if I (a certified dumbfuck) can continuously come up with better proposals than the lazily implemented shit the game has to offer - it has serious fucking problems. I mean look, you wanted to tackle serious subjects like Camp Omega and Afghanistan (stuff never attempted in the franchise before) - then why the fuck do you not go the full stretch and half arse it? if fulton is so important for base-building, make it a full-fledged feature with its own intricacies, mechanics and multiple upgrade paths, show the Outer Heaven's ingenuity and resourcefulness instead of having some tacked on shit in. MGS was never about half-assed.

It is just sad that my enthusiasm here is wasted on a lost fucking cause.

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