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Fighting Bosses in the dynamic Open World
07-13-2014, 12:46 AM (This post was last modified: 07-13-2014 12:49 AM by jdnation.)
Post: #1
Fighting Bosses in the dynamic Open World
Back in the days of TUS during the early MGS4 hoopla, Kojima was talking about his ambitions for having a live dynamic battlefield, where things you did remained and were altered by you from the environment to the making of allies and enemies. We all know later on that MGS4 fell far short of Kojima's original intentions, but now it looks as though a lot of it is coming to fruition with TPP.

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Anyway, I'd made speculations on things Kojima was discussing about day/night changes alongside weather, and was wondering how these things could carry over into boss battles.

Using MGS3 as an example, say we were fighting the Fear. If it were to rain, then perhaps his term optic camo would not be as effective as when it is sunny. These changes would effect the way the boss battle plays out.

Likewise, for the End, it would be difficult to have a sniper fight at night versus the daytime. Would the tactics remain the same? Or would Kojima be clever enough to recognize this idea?

For example, we know we will have some advantages when sneaking around grunts in day versus night. But what about bosses? What if boss behavior and patterns changed depending on the environment to compensate for it and provide the same level of challenge in a totally different way?

For example, let's consider the Fury. A big fiery guy. And suppose the fight was outside. The setup would take place in one particular way where he's burning down the forest to get you. That's one scenario.

But say it begins to rain, thus creating difficulty for the Fury. Would the AI then switch tactics where the Fury will be more careful, maintaining the forest environment so as to provide cover from the rain? Or say there is a facility nearby, will the Fury then change tactics and run indoors instead so you are forced to take the battle to him on his grounds, or could you try and force him outside again?

I'm guessing Kojima will create dynamic bosses that will have certain advantages/disadvantages, and various tactics to make better use of their advantages & cover their disadvantages depending on environmental changes.

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Another thing that really excites me is the inevitable Metal Gear fight. I have a very big feeling that it's going to be epic and even involve the full use of your skills as a commander and utilizing your troops & Mother Base.

Imagine the open scale of the Afghan level or an abandoned urban environment, Metal Gear is on the loose rampaging across the landscape. You're up in the chopper firing at it while commanding other troops on the ground to provide fire to draw it into a certain locale. You can land your chopper, get out, do some damage, run the fuck away, get back in your chopper, fly around, wait until the damage you did cripples Metal Gear into stopping briefly, then taking that moment to call Mother Base to fire onto the location you drew Metal Gear into and watching the barrage of missiles onto Metal Gear from the Chopper, then getting ready to try the pattern over again.

I'm seriously expecting some really epic shit from our encounter(s) with Metal Gear that'll force us to really appreciate the scale of the Open environment and using Mother Base. I can also only imagine that Kojima Productions can pull off some amazing co-op boss battles in this way.
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07-13-2014, 04:45 AM
Post: #2
RE: Fighting Bosses in the dynamic Open World
It'll be like the original Double Dragon. Boss fight start, climb back down ladder, you win!

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
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07-14-2014, 07:28 AM
Post: #3
RE: Fighting Bosses in the dynamic Open World
Unfortuantely, I think the boss battles will be restricted to a "mission area" but weather/time will be cool to experience during one.

[Image: tumblr_mt0datDwt91rt6u7do1_400.gif]
PSN ID: BigBoss599
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07-14-2014, 08:02 AM
Post: #4
RE: Fighting Bosses in the dynamic Open World
It's a neat concept, but the fights would probably drag on and kill the pacing too much.

Imagine if every boss battlw in MGS3 was like the fight against The End. Open world always sounds cool, but doesn't always work. I think small environments and controlled situations make the best boss battles in these kinds of games. More focused and whatnot.

Though if there are vehicle bosses, like in Piss Walker, open world would be awesome for those.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
QUOTE
07-14-2014, 10:09 AM
Post: #5
RE: Fighting Bosses in the dynamic Open World
I also think fighting against human bosses will be area restricted, but I think that assuming it's outdoors, that fights may be dynamic and change based on conditions.

For large scale vehicles, fo sho I think the map will be open or at least very very large...
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07-14-2014, 10:33 AM
Post: #6
RE: Fighting Bosses in the dynamic Open World
Metal Gear games always seem to sound far more ambitious and impressive than they ever end up being, so even though Phantom Pain will be open world for the most part (presumably), I still wouldn't assume anything about it until you actually play it.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
QUOTE
07-16-2014, 03:08 PM
Post: #7
RE: Fighting Bosses in the dynamic Open World
I still wish for MGS4 to be remade.
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07-16-2014, 03:29 PM
Post: #8
RE: Fighting Bosses in the dynamic Open World
No, fool! They gotta re-remake MGS1 for the PS3 using MGS3's mechanics, and call it "The Twin Snake Eater."

Then they re-re-remake it for PS4 using MGS4's engine, call it "Guns of the Twin Snake Eaters," and finally a last remake based on Phantom Pain, called "Guns of the Twin Phantom Pain Eater."

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
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07-16-2014, 03:39 PM
Post: #9
RE: Fighting Bosses in the dynamic Open World
(07-16-2014 03:29 PM)Crack Dealer Wrote:  No, fool! They gotta re-remake MGS1 for the PS3 using MGS3's mechanics, and call it "The Twin Snake Eater."

Then they re-re-remake it for PS4 using MGS4's engine, call it "Guns of the Twin Snake Eaters," and finally a last remake based on Phantom Pain, called "Guns of the Twin Phantom Pain Eater."

The cycle shall never end.
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07-16-2014, 03:42 PM
Post: #10
RE: Fighting Bosses in the dynamic Open World
Not until ALL of MGS1's integrity has been destroyed!

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
QUOTE
07-16-2014, 04:02 PM
Post: #11
RE: Fighting Bosses in the dynamic Open World
(07-16-2014 03:42 PM)Crack Dealer Wrote:  Not until ALL of MGS1's integrity has been destroyed!

[Image: metalgearsolid.jpg]

(05-22-2016 02:42 PM)Canucklehead Wrote:  The actual hero of Metal Gear is the player for putting up with all of its bullshit over the years.
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07-16-2014, 04:37 PM (This post was last modified: 07-16-2014 04:39 PM by Canucklehead.)
Post: #12
RE: Fighting Bosses in the dynamic Open World
Oh yeah, shit, I forgot that thing exists.

I picked it up once (like, picked it off the shelf; I didn't actually "pick it up," as in, like, spend money or trade good for it) and read about a half-page before I was too much a strange combination of disgusted and laughter to continue.

And I thought the Ashley Wood comics, which were basically just cheaply-painted screen-shots of the game, were bad, ha ha!

The saddest part is that that guy was allowed to continue writing afterwards, and even gets paid. What a dick!

I wonder who stamped the Konami seal of approval on that cocksucker, and whether they actually read it or not.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
QUOTE
07-17-2014, 02:22 AM
Post: #13
RE: Fighting Bosses in the dynamic Open World
Couldn't be worse then the 4th Mass Effect novel.

That motherfucker was supposed to be canon and it was written by some shithead who didn't know that you don't just "grow out of" being autistic, let alone all that nitty gritty Mass Effect lore.

Here's my counter-offer to your counter-offer: Go Fuck Yourself!
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07-20-2014, 02:58 PM (This post was last modified: 07-20-2014 06:05 PM by Canucklehead.)
Post: #14
RE: Fighting Bosses in the dynamic Open World
I kinda wonder how many bosses the game will even have. Seems like from MG2 onwards, there are less and less bosses each game. And with Peace Walker not having even a single conventional humanoid boss and Ground Zeroes having nothing, what about Phantom Pain?

Hopefully there's optional sub-bosses or something. I would hope for the main cast of bosses to be people, and maybe a bunch of vehicle-based sub-bosses, like the Hind prototype things that attack you on the cliff in MGS3. Put a base on high alert (another wonder of mine: will the game have a GTA-style tiered alert system? If you're seen by a single guy, will everything they have come at you? Or will the mechanized force only deploy when the light forces can't stop you, and the CAS only when the mechanized forces fail as well?) and Tanks & Choppers start hunting you down. The bosses in Piss Walker were fun; they just weren't a good substitute for humanoid bosses overall. Both would be fun.

CANUCKLEHEAD
He's just a prick

I just saved 100% on stress by switching to Not Giving A Fuck
QUOTE
07-20-2014, 08:24 PM
Post: #15
RE: Fighting Bosses in the dynamic Open World
(07-14-2014 08:02 AM)Canucklehead Wrote:  It's a neat concept, but the fights would probably drag on and kill the pacing too much.

Imagine if every boss battlw in MGS3 was like the fight against The End. Open world always sounds cool, but doesn't always work. I think small environments and controlled situations make the best boss battles in these kinds of games. More focused and whatnot.

Though if there are vehicle bosses, like in Piss Walker, open world would be awesome for those.

The overall Peace Walker design felt so Beta that at some point it seems Kojima cancelled it to start working on Ground Zeroes which also looked cancelled so he could make The Phantom Pain which was also cancelled because it wasn't Metal Gear.

So now we're here with MGSV:TPP and all the new people that didn't play Nonviolent Marcher will hopefully get a scaled-back PW that doesn't overly emphasize endless helicopter bosses and "wild AI weapons" that require neets to make friends to beat. I don't think it works as well in Japan as they would lead us to believe either. I played Armored Core V on the JP servers and there was nothing really all that co-operative about it that made me think the problem would somehow be the largest market in the industry...no. Bad design is bad design. Someone at some point should have told Kojima the game was unplayable. Dude needs to replay more Elder Scrolls or something and learn how to side-quest.
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