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Direction of Gaming (Regarding Free Roam)
09-25-2015, 05:26 PM (This post was last modified: 09-25-2015 05:30 PM by BigB0SS.)
Post: #1
Direction of Gaming (Regarding Free Roam)
I realize gaming has been heading in the direction of free roam for years (look back at games like Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Primitive but has basic elements of free roam. Some may call that too linear to be defined as free roam but still every free roam game has limits or boundaries you can't pass beyond... even TPP).


http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2015/09/23/h...l-realism/


This was an article about how games are heading "into the threshold of photorealism." In the article, they're talking about games becoming interactive movies, etc. Yes people have known and talked about this before.

Here's the point of this thread: There's a big difference between choosing to invest in a 2 hour movie and 100+ hour "interactive movie." For gamers to keep up with all the newest releases back in the day wasn't nearly as time consuming as today. For example playing 10-15 games per year when the campaign is 12+ hrs = 120-180 hrs. Try playing 10-15 games today with campaigns 100+ hrs = 1000-1500hrs.

Game sales/profits have driven gaming industries to push for more from AAA titles, which has led to limitations in artistic freedom on those titles. Gaming industries almost expect gamers to keep up with all the new titles. It seems to force gamers to either go crazy buying every new game, barely completing any/all of them, or being very selective about titles. The average gamer might have the money to buy all the new games, but probably doesn't have the time to play all of them. Almost like the gaming industries are shooting themselves in the foot by making 100+ and free roam the standard.
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09-25-2015, 09:51 PM (This post was last modified: 09-25-2015 09:56 PM by Victor Katilis.)
Post: #2
RE: Direction of Gaming (Regarding Free Roam)
Lol, TPP has one of the most pathetic 'free roams' to date.
You know the forest west of Lufwa Valley mansion (the big one on the map, not the pitiful tiny one shown in the demos)? Litterally a massive chunk of land you cannot access. WHY THE FUCK EVEN BOTHER DRAWING IT ON THE MAP IF YOU CANNOT ACCESS THE FUCKING THING.

The whole game is fucking corridors between outposts. And nothing in between those outposts bar a couple cars and two guy patrols. With mountain ridges and arbitrary inclines you cannot traverse. Even MGS3 on a fucking PS2 managed to do more.

You cannot even use a helicopter as a taxi between (pre-set!) LZs, you have to get back to the main menu (cause that is what ACC fucking is) and then load the map again? WHY?

Oh and remember how in ground zeroes you could request heli wherever the fuck you wanted? Yeah, that's right.

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09-26-2015, 02:32 AM (This post was last modified: 09-27-2015 02:35 AM by Dr. Clark.)
Post: #3
RE: Direction of Gaming (Regarding Free Roam)
I never had the time and money to play all the games, even back when GB Color was around. I was always very selective and when finding Pokémon, Castlevania and MGS, I had my Triforce of main games that would be the reasons for buying new hardware wilhe looking for other possible interesting games. Since this games have extras unlocking and are great, I would play them for a long time, enough for the next to come. Nowadays I simply don't have the time, and I prefer to invest money on other stuff.
I honestly don't care about AAA games, more so nowadays where they're so bloated and full of shit, from PR bullshit to DLC.
As for the free roam...my first one was ACII because the franchise was already on III when I decided to look what was all the excitment that I've seen for years about the series. I saw a playthrough of the first chapters and liked it. I managed to get the complete edition and found unbelievable that such shit dlc for the game wouldn'd be released with the game at first. Other than that I only have BF because I was tired of II.
Reading Katilis post, now I know that I won't have to worry about fully exploring the map, because the entire map isn't fully explorable.
Let's be honest here, TPP isn't a swan song or if it is, then the swan has been dead for a long time. Why all the excitement of a free roam MGS when 2 was supposedly the last, then 4 to close the deal? Yeah, MGS3 had me wishing about a free roam but it was foreseable that storywise it wouldn't be great and gameplaywise..Kojima might have some good ideas but what other use do you have for horse shit aside from causing an car accident? Having Outer Heaven? Yeah, that would be cool but we're not even BB and when we thought we were, he had a fucking horn, a belt tail and Kiefer's voice. After playing MG2SS, I find 3 way too straighfoward and without much thinking and the older games are even growing more on me.

When it comes to Castlevania (and I won't speak of dragqueen LoS), it's best as it was, in a castle because that creates tension when exploring.
As for Pkmn, while I don't want a total freeroam, the games are now way too repetitive in their formulas and new gameplay features are only available in that game instead of becoming a stapple for the series (seasons, customisation, Pkmn following you).
Overall, I'm keeping an eye on games but have less and less interest.

Edit: in reality, my first free roam was with the original Driver, where we could just drive in two then four cities and was just that: no collectibles, no nothing, just the joy of enjoying the music and scenario.

[Image: Zanzibarlandsymbol.jpg]
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09-26-2015, 07:02 AM
Post: #4
RE: Direction of Gaming (Regarding Free Roam)
I wish we'd return back to the time when games were about running down the same road and having fun. Basically all I want is a game like the first Crash Bandicoot.
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09-26-2015, 10:22 AM
Post: #5
RE: Direction of Gaming (Regarding Free Roam)
Quote:After playing MG2SS, I find 3 way too straighfowad and without much thinking and the older games are even growing more on me.

This, a thousand times this.

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QUOTE
09-27-2015, 06:27 PM
Post: #6
RE: Direction of Gaming (Regarding Free Roam)
(09-25-2015 09:51 PM)Victor Katilis Wrote:  Lol, TPP has one of the most pathetic 'free roams' to date.
You know the forest west of Lufwa Valley mansion (the big one on the map, not the pitiful tiny one shown in the demos)? Litterally a massive chunk of land you cannot access. WHY THE FUCK EVEN BOTHER DRAWING IT ON THE MAP IF YOU CANNOT ACCESS THE FUCKING THING.

The whole game is fucking corridors between outposts. And nothing in between those outposts bar a couple cars and two guy patrols. With mountain ridges and arbitrary inclines you cannot traverse. Even MGS3 on a fucking PS2 managed to do more.

You cannot even use a helicopter as a taxi between (pre-set!) LZs, you have to get back to the main menu (cause that is what ACC fucking is) and then load the map again? WHY?

Oh and remember how in ground zeroes you could request heli wherever the fuck you wanted? Yeah, that's right.

I agree. While TPP has large environments (though debatable, comparing to other free roams), it still is confined to the areas they want you to play in. Haha like how some people are comparing it to Far Cry because some moments in Africa reminded me of plant searching in FC3.

Some people might say having boundaries is necessary to make sure you stay to story areas. But still is it really pure free roam? Free roam is basically saying it's a massive map that doesn't tell you exactly when/where to do missions.

Did they actually allow the chopper to touch down anywhere in Ground Zeroes? I vaguely remember having that option but barely used it. And if so, sucks they removed it.

Maybe I should stay clear of free roams after this. TPP is great gameplay. I'm just irritated having spent 100+ hrs on this to find out sudden plot twists and a certain someone leaving you. On one hand the plot twist makes sense, but also seems like it has some holes in it...



(09-26-2015 02:32 AM)Dr. Clark Wrote:  I never had the time and money to play all the games, even back when GB Color was around. I was always very selective and when finding Pokémon, Castlevania and MGS, I had my Triforce of main games that would be the reasons for buying new hardware wilhe looking for other possible interesting games. Since this games have extras unlocking and are great, I would play them for a long time, enough for the next to come. Nowadays I simply don't have the time, and I prefer to invest money on other stuff.
I honestly don't care about AAA games, more so nowadays where they're so bloated and full of shit, from PR bullshit to DLC.
As for the free roam...my first one was ACII because the franchise was already on III when I decided to look what was all the excitment that I've seen for years about the series. I saw a playthrough of the first chapters and liked it. I managed to get the complete edition and found unbelievable that such shit dlc for the game wouldn'd be released with the game at first. Other than that I only have BF because I was tired of II.
Reading Katilis post, now I know that I won't have to worry about fully exploring the map, because the entire map isn't fully explorable.
Let's be honest here, TPP isn't a swan song or if it is, then the swan has been dead for a long time. Why all the excitement of a free roam MGS when 2 was supposedly the last, then 4 to close the deal? Yeah, MGS3 had me wishing about a free roam but it was foreseable that storywise it wouldn't be great and gameplaywise..Kojima might have some good ideas but what other use do you have for horse shit aside from causing an car accident? Having Outer Heaven? Yeah, that would be cool but we're not even BB and when we thought we were, he had a fucking horn, a belt tail and Kiefer's voice. After playing MG2SS, I find 3 way too straighfoward and without much thinking and the older games are even growing more on me.

When it comes to Castlevania (and I won't speak of dragqueen LoS), it's best as it was, in a castle because that creates tension when exploring.
As for Pkmn, while I don't want a total freeroam, the games are now way too repetitive in their formulas and new gameplay features are only available in that game instead of becoming a stapple for the series (seasons, customisation, Pkmn following you).
Overall, I'm keeping an eye on games but have less and less interest.

Edit: in reality, my first free roam was with the original Driver, where we could just drive in two then four cities and was just that: no collectibles, no nothing, just the joy of enjoying the music and scenario.


Yeah. Sadly seems the longer you stay with a series, the worse it gets. AC2 was good, but can't really say that series is going in a good direction. They pump out AC titles too often to keep my attention (like battlefield and modern warfare, they think annual releases are good ideas). I'm late twenties and simply don't have time to keep up with sequels (resident evil perfect example).


(09-26-2015 07:02 AM)SexyKaz Wrote:  I wish we'd return back to the time when games were about running down the same road and having fun. Basically all I want is a game like the first Crash Bandicoot.

I know man. Simplistic game design can make games more enjoyable. All this management crap in MGS... I just want to play the story man. Yeah creating, stealing, kidnapping its fun for a while but extremely distracting and time consuming (PO, PW, TPP, damn management simulators).

(09-26-2015 10:22 AM)Victor Katilis Wrote:  
Quote:After playing MG2SS, I find 3 way too straighfowad and without much thinking and the older games are even growing more on me.

This, a thousand times this.

This is what makes MGS3 so appealing. He swapped up the formula taking it from extremely complicated technical and philosophical time frame back to more primitive time and simplistic ideologies.
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09-27-2015, 11:13 PM (This post was last modified: 09-27-2015 11:13 PM by Victor Katilis.)
Post: #7
RE: Direction of Gaming (Regarding Free Roam)
Yeah , that is what I was saying back in 2013. It was succesfull because it did something they never done before.
But I think he talked about gameplay.

P.S. Just to note that he was talking about Metal Gear 2 : Solid Snake, not MGS2. And I agree completely, MG2 is so far out of the box even today it is fucking unreal.

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09-28-2015, 12:27 AM
Post: #8
RE: Direction of Gaming (Regarding Free Roam)
Ah gotcha. Somehow I read MGS2S. Didn't realize he was talking about Metal Gear 2
QUOTE
09-28-2015, 01:44 AM (This post was last modified: 09-28-2015 01:50 AM by Dr. Clark.)
Post: #9
RE: Direction of Gaming (Regarding Free Roam)
(09-27-2015 06:27 PM)BigB0SS Wrote:  Yeah. Sadly seems the longer you stay with a series, the worse it gets. AC2 was good, but can't really say that series is going in a good direction. They pump out AC titles too often to keep my attention (like battlefield and modern warfare, they think annual releases are good ideas). I'm late twenties and simply don't have time to keep up with sequels (resident evil perfect example).

I'm looking foward to Syndicate but not as an AC game, just as a game with great exploration set in Victorian London and where I can drive carriages while having clothing options and this is if I ever end up buying a PS4!
I'm 25 and gone are the days when school was my main concern and games were where I invested time.

Management over story? Let's face it, PW had a short story that can be seen by the number of story missions. I've told before that due to management and grinding, by the time I returned to a story mission in PW I wouldn't know what year was it and what the fuck had happened besides having a base in the ocean and being tired of hearing stuff related to peace. From what I read, in TPP that may very well be a blessing due to the fucked up story. V is more of a war management simulator than a MGS game.

[Image: Zanzibarlandsymbol.jpg]
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09-28-2015, 07:58 AM (This post was last modified: 09-28-2015 08:23 AM by PoisonSnake.)
Post: #10
RE: Direction of Gaming (Regarding Free Roam)
Quote:Dmitri Williams, an USC professor who studies the science of games, told FoxNews.com that games like Metal Gear Solid 5 are just about to cross a threshold into photorealism. Fergusson says we’re edging closer to a time when video games are more like interactive movies that gives us a richer sense of character development and visual excitement.

Oh dear... I hope Dimitri is actually smarter than that because relating to games as if they were "interactive movies" is to me the plainest and dumbest thing only a fuck would do. It is exactly what my old fashioned, half educated, and traditionalist grandma would have said.
And heck, you can see here in Dimitri's page where is this guy coming from and what his interests in games are... it is a bit like the interest a botanist would have in... weird plants:
http://dmitriwilliams.com/research.html
For example:
  • Who Plays, How Much, and Why? A Behavioral Player Census of a Virtual World. National Communication Association Conference. San Diego, California.
  • Focused on the Prize: Characteristics of Experts in Massive Multiplayer Online Games. First Monday, 16(8).
  • The virtual census: Representations of gender, race and age in video games. New Media & Society. 11(5) p. 815-834.
And inevitableeeeeeeee:
  • A Content Analysis of Female Body Imagery in Video Games. Sex Roles. 61(11-12) p. 824-836.
So, frankly, I don't think anyone here would bother over what people (scientists!? what the hell is this guy??) like him say... about anything that relates to games.
And I sincerely hope and wish that Dimitri would some day bother to grab a controller to play stuff like this... and forget about his research for a spell. And if he doesn't really care, then maybe simply decline to comment when he is asked by the arses at "FoxNews".
[Image: Red-Dead-Redemption-Make--006.jpg]
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09-28-2015, 01:13 PM (This post was last modified: 09-28-2015 01:27 PM by BigB0SS.)
Post: #11
RE: Direction of Gaming (Regarding Free Roam)
Maybe that's why I have problems remembering the PW storyline. The side ops in that game were far worse than TPP (too many missions requiring fulton waves of tanks. Never mind trying to obtain all the emblems). To be honest PW felt like PO mixed with J-pop culture. Kind of glad Paz and Chico are gone because of this.

(09-28-2015 07:58 AM)PoisonSnake Wrote:  
Quote:Dmitri Williams, an USC professor who studies the science of games, told FoxNews.com that games like Metal Gear Solid 5 are just about to cross a threshold into photorealism. Fergusson says we’re edging closer to a time when video games are more like interactive movies that gives us a richer sense of character development and visual excitement.

Oh dear... I hope Dimitri is actually smarter than that because relating to games as if they were "interactive movies" is to me the plainest and dumbest thing only a fuck would do. It is exactly what my old fashioned, half educated, and traditionalist grandma would have said.
And heck, you can see here in Dimitri's page where is this guy coming from and what his interests in games are... it is a bit like the interest a botanist would have in... weird plants:
http://dmitriwilliams.com/research.html
For example:
  • Who Plays, How Much, and Why? A Behavioral Player Census of a Virtual World. National Communication Association Conference. San Diego, California.
  • Focused on the Prize: Characteristics of Experts in Massive Multiplayer Online Games. First Monday, 16(8).
  • The virtual census: Representations of gender, race and age in video games. New Media & Society. 11(5) p. 815-834.
And inevitableeeeeeeee:
  • A Content Analysis of Female Body Imagery in Video Games. Sex Roles. 61(11-12) p. 824-836.
So, frankly, I don't think anyone here would bother over what people (scientists!? what the hell is this guy??) like him say... about anything that relates to games.
And I sincerely hope and wish that Dimitri would some day bother to grab a controller to play stuff like this... and forget about his research for a spell. And if he doesn't really care, then maybe simply decline to comment when he is asked by the arses at "FoxNews".
[Image: Red-Dead-Redemption-Make--006.jpg]

There's no debate there. I'm not sure who the guy is, nor do I care. Just was using that as a topic starter. And to be honest, I'm surprised FOX news even does topics on video gaming.
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09-29-2015, 06:34 AM
Post: #12
RE: Direction of Gaming (Regarding Free Roam)
I hear ya. I think Fox News is talking about this because of the huge, enormous marketing of the MGS brand. I remember that for MGS4 there were TV spots in US very much in the style of movies. Inevitably that draws attention from everyone that typically would not be aware of such a release... Happens with comic books and movies as well, and you find people talking about, uhm. "Deadpool" who really had little idea such a disgusting thing ever existed.
As for open world or sand box game design, yes, it is a bit of a coveted fruit for video game producers given the spectacular success of the most famous ones...
but clearly not everyone can do a great sandbox game and succeed. MGS5 in many ways fails as an "open world" game. I am also playing Mad Max... and is shares some of its failures with MGS5. Bland writing among others. And a lack of musical atmosphere. and I could go on. Rockstar has not succeeded in all its releases.
So yes, I love sandbox games, but not every company is fit to deliver them. And I am hardly an authority as I don't' play PC games, just consoles...
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09-29-2015, 06:56 AM
Post: #13
RE: Direction of Gaming (Regarding Free Roam)
Mad Max is free roam? Sound interesting. Have you ever played Red Dead Redemption? I've heard many good things about RDR but never tried it.
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09-29-2015, 10:47 AM
Post: #14
RE: Direction of Gaming (Regarding Free Roam)
Sandbox is now what 3rd person shooters were a couple years back. And what WW2 shooters were before that. It's the new standard and the industry already fucking suffers from it.
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09-29-2015, 01:18 PM (This post was last modified: 09-29-2015 01:27 PM by PoisonSnake.)
Post: #15
RE: Direction of Gaming (Regarding Free Roam)
(09-29-2015 10:47 AM)SexyKaz Wrote:  Sandbox is now what 3rd person shooters were a couple years back. And what WW2 shooters were

You think? I usually preferred 3rd person shooters to 1st person shooters... but I hardly remember any from the 80s or 90s that would be sandbox... best as I remember they were pretty linear, as in you move fwd and if you dont the game doesnt move, or perhaps my memory fails... which ones do you mean? I remember playing some of the lesser RPGs in the 80s, full-RPGs never being my thing really, but none of these half assed RPGs I played were shooters, and hardly you could call them sandbox, but clearly they were getting there in the concept of: do whatever the hell you want in the gameplay level, and you can advance the story any time you feel like.
For example... anyone remembers, uhm, "Bard's Tale"? or the original "Pirates" from Microsoft?

(09-29-2015 06:56 AM)BigB0SS Wrote:  Mad Max is free roam? Sound interesting. Have you ever played Red Dead Redemption? I've heard many good things about RDR but never tried it.

Red Dead Redemption was to me one of the high points of having bought the PS3, I loved it. I would recommend it but I cannot guarantee you will fall in love with it. The pic I inserted above is from RDR. To me it was exactly what I wanted for a western-film based videogame. Room for improvement it has, but the game atmosphere and the characters and the landscapes and the acting and the action and the music and the challenges and the animals... well, I just loved it. You would be staring at something in the horizon and out of nowhere an angry bear would cut you in half... Go check the videos in youtube. Especially as I could not pass the GTA series... cant stand the characters and their story lines. But RDR just did it for me.

Mad Max, yes, it is free roam like RDR. But lacks on many dpts... I bought it used, would recommend it used as well, and I suggest you check some of the youtube reviews and gameplay. It is what you get. It is rather bland and a bit sloppy here and there... which knowing the potential of other open world games makes me think they missed a big one here, no matter how much effort they put in it, its gaps scream at me pretty loud. And you just wish this game had the elegance of the Fox engine to serve it.
The car action though is good, with weapons like harpoons and guys jumping onto your car to kick your face, but for example there are so far no monster vehicles like in the movies... duh.
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