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Board screwing up/MGS2: Lost in Translation Hyper Edition
11-12-2015, 02:55 PM (This post was last modified: 11-14-2015 09:14 PM by DarthCaligula.)
Post: #1
Board screwing up/MGS2: Lost in Translation Hyper Edition
So I keep getting this thing about BBS not working or whatever constantly when I come here, and now with the board back, I don't see my MGS2: Lost in Translation topic.

....Please don't tell me all that stuff I typed is gone. I wasn't saving it or anything. I don't want to have to start over. Please tell me this is temporary.
11-12-2015, 02:59 PM
Post: #2
RE: Board screwing up
Damn the patriots!
I liked that thread.
11-12-2015, 03:08 PM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2015 03:09 PM by JohnnySasaki20.)
Post: #3
RE: Board screwing up
Indeed, I was in the middle of typing something, and then went to hit reply, and it said "this thread does not exist". I was fucking pissed as fucking hell, to put it as lightly as possible. Luckily I had read the vast majority of it.

Anyway, I actually saved my comment. It really wasn't much, but I'll post it anyway:

Yeah, this is grade a prime time. Keep this coming. I'd like to know specifically if there are any, seriously huge changes that we totally missed out on, or if the total interpretation for the meaning of the game was different in Japan. That would be a giant kick in the balls.

However, I still love my game, despite Raiden, and that pussy boy Quinton "fuck up my gaming experience" Flynn.

In fact, you mentioned one of Ocelots lines was interpreted slightly wrong. I actually like it better in our version, and that line is probably one of my favorite lines in all of the games. The delivery and everything. Zimmerman was a total badass, of which we need much more of. Or, at least, I wish we had more of him. I've said this 1000 times before, and I'm going to say this shit again, but after MGS4, I could never really get myself to actually want to play any of the games. I mean it just sucked so god damned hard that it actually took the "give a fuck" out of me. You couldn't PAY me to have played any MG game after that. I even stopped playing the old ones, lol. I bought MGSV, and returned it after almost 2 months without even opening the package.

Anyway, here's this kickass line I'm talking about. With exception to Ocelots post credits exchange after MGS1, this is possibly my favorite single line of dialog in any of the games.

I even love the semi-echo with the No, no, I'm taking it back.

Earlier I Wrote:You forgot about the reptilian shapeshifting raptor aliens, from the planet Nibiru, that live in deep underground bases, who are in cahoots with the Nazi ODESSA Fourth Reich, which is being secretly commanded by Hitler, Elvis, and Tupac Shakur, that have been enslaving us as a genetically designed alien/human hybrid race for thousands of years, by using the illuminati skull and bones freemason society, who built the pyramids with their flying saucers, and are living in the 6 thousand year old hollow earth, via an entrance in Antarctica, to construct a New World Order, which was outlined and enforced by the secret Bilderberg and Council on Foreign Relations groups, at Bohemian Grove, where they dance around naked and worship a devil owl, and developed their master draconian Agenda 21 plan to alter the weather via contrails and HAARP, and eventually depopulate the earth by killing billions of people in FEMA camps. They killed JFK, and Stanley Kubrick faked the moon landings at Area 51. .....also,...uhh,....Jimmy Hoffa...
11-12-2015, 03:32 PM
Post: #4
RE: Board screwing up
The Phantom Forum.

We are all just a hallucination to Ravi.

JohnnySasaki20's post will always be left incomplete.
11-12-2015, 03:38 PM
Post: #5
RE: Board screwing up
Fuck it, just carry on with the next section. I'm interested in the translation since honestly I have no ear for Japanese accents, they all sound like generic voice actors to me.

Suck my fat one you cheap dime store hood
11-12-2015, 03:42 PM (This post was last modified: 12-02-2015 05:32 PM by DarthCaligula.)
Post: #6
RE: Board screwing up
Yeah, Zimmerman does an awesome job as Ocelot. Like I said, with most of the voice actors, I think they did fine, and a few did absolutely wonderful, it's just that I feel that all the Japanese voices just feel more like they're actually there. They just sound better, and I'm not just saying this as some "OMG I LUV JAPAN JAPAN RULZ NIHON GA DAI SUKI DESUYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!" idiot. It's just that I haven't heard a single line that feels out of place. These voice actors are really good.

So I played some more earlier, and since the board was down and I wanted to type this all down before I forgot, I typed it out and saved in on my computer, so here's the next part. If everything comes back, I can just have Ravi merge this or just copy and paste it into my old topic. If it does some back, I'm going to make damn sure to save everything I typed, because I despair at the thought of having to type all that stuff again, with all my explanations of the Japanese context and such. Is there anyone here that might have access to all that stuff I typed in some way?

Note: Everything here for Parts 1 and 2 were written after I beat the game. I originally talked about these parts in my original topic which disappeared. I'm not going to edit the later posts, so you might notice that I mention things in these first two parts that in the later posts I wasn't sure about, like the Japanese name for the Patriots. If you read that first topic before, I'm going to be treading some of the same ground, but I've also got a better understanding of the game now that I've played through it all.
Last year I went to Japan and while there I found a Japanese copy of the original release of Metal Gear Solid 2. The hostel I stayed at for a while had a PS2 and the owner let me use it. I managed to play the game up to the part when Raiden meets Ames. While some things are quite well known about the differences between the Japanese and English version of the game, like the fact that Solid and Solidus Snake were both voiced by the same man, Akio Otsuka, I was amazed at all the things I found that I had never heard about. I have a friend who has a modified PS2 that can play Japanese and I think Korean games, and he said he'd let me borrow it, but after waiting a year I decided to give up and bought a copy of the Japanese Metal Gear Solid Legacy Collection, since the Japanese version of Akiba's Trip 2 worked on my PS3, and after doing research I found out that there are apparently only two or three Japanese games that won't play on it.
As for my credentials, I took three years of Japanese classes in high school as well as two terms of Japanese classes in college. More personally, I've done a very rough translation of the Japanese light novel (equal to young adult) Boogiepop Overdrive, which was about 320 pages, and overall understood the story. I am currently two thirds of the way through Boogiepop in the Mirror and doing a much better job understanding it. I have also played through the Japanese version of Akiba's Trip 2 three times and overall got the idea of what the story was.
Before I get into the game itself, there are a few things I think I should note about the Japanese language, and how it factors into the subtleties in MGS2, since these can be hard to translate fully. Language is really just our attempt to use sounds and writing to express our ideas and concepts, and this is really important to understand when translating. There isn't always a direct translation between one concept and another, and this is especially true with kanji. For example, while you can say the Japanese word "kazu"( 和) means "peace" in English, this isn't exactly true. "Kazu" more specifically is "peace" in the idea of "harmony", while there are other words that can mean peace in other senses, like "on" or "odayaka" (穏やか) which can also mean "peaceful", but more like "calm" or "gentle", and even going from that, it's a different kind of "calm" than "nagi" (凪). Not only that, but the kanji for "kazu" that I showed can in other circumstances be said as "wa" with still the same meaning. So when translating something from another language, you can't just translate one word as another, it really depends on context and in the end the translator has to decide just how this is going to be done.
Japanese people use kanji for their names as well, with kanji for the sound of their name chosen for a meaning. From what I've found for example, the name "Touka" can be written in several different ways in kanji, so the parents would decide on what kanji to use. So when a character in a book for example is first introduced, they'll have the kanji for their name, and next to it, in smaller hiragana, called furigana, is how you say the name. Using my Boogiepop books as an example, the first time Miyashita Touka is introduced, she has the furigana next to her name, and from then on it's just the kanji.
But this is also used in other ways. Again, since I did a rough translation of the book Boogiepop Overdrive, it's easiest for me to use that as an example. In the book, there's an important building called the Moon Temple, with the name in English. When it's first introduced, it shows kanji with smaller katakana appearing next to it similar to furigana, but I don't know what the word for this would be exactly. The kanji itself uses Japanese to get the same idea across, of a Moon Temple, so the Japanese reader will know what it means, while for the rest of the book, it's just referred to as the Moon Temple (or "Muun Tenpuru" to be exact), and this sort of thing also comes up in MGS2 I noticed. I'll be mentioning it in my posts on the game, but I found that they use this same idea for other things as well, with the character saying something in English, with the kanji for the idea appearing and the words in English appearing above. This is why some subtleties can get lost, and this can be a very hard thing to translate, so I really don't blame the translator for maybe missing some of this.
OK, hopefully I didn't bore you all to death with that. Now on to the game itself.
By the way, when I quote lines from the English version of the game, I'm going off of memory, so the quotes might not be exact.
I'm going to do my best not to push any sort of theory about the game's story while doing this, and instead just do my best to mention the things we missed out on and do my best to translate it. This is also going to contain my thoughts at the time while I was playing, so I will mention the VR Theory for example, though I'll do my best to make it clear when I'm discussing something like that, and not to let it interfere with the translation itself.

Part 1: The Tanker Chapter

First I'll start with the box for the game itself. The cover art prominently features Raiden and the back of the box actually shows Solidus with his eyepatch, as well as Raiden from the game itself, shown plainly. The manual doesn't really have anything worth nothing though.
In the opening title sequence it of course shows the names of the Japanese voice actors, and also has the names dispalyed in Roman lettering, going with the molecule theme that it has. I was also surprised that the names were listed in Western order rathar than Eastern. For example, instead of saying "Otsuka Akio", with the family name first, which is very common in Eastern cultures, it says "Akio Otsuka". Titles for positions are also in English, for example "Military Advisor" for Motosada Mori.
The menu for the game itself is in English, with explanations appearing in Japanese at the bottom sometimes for what's highlighted. And this is also where I noticed the first difference that I had never heard about. When you start a new game, a woman's voice starts talking to you. I didn't catch what she said exactly, but she seemed to be describing stealth gameplay. After that, you're given a list of sentences as options, and depending on which one you choose, it gives you a list of difficulties to start with. This is of course quite similar to what happens in the beginning of MGS3. I chose an option that let me play the game on Normal. This entire part, with the woman's voice and the list is absent from the Legacy version.
When the game itself begins, the names of the cast and crew are displayed like in the English version, but this time it's all in Japanese, with the names in kanji. English names like Harry Gregson-Williams are displayed in katakana.
I'm going to talk about the differences in the English and Japanese voice acting as the characters appear. First I just want to make it clear that I think the majority of the voice actors did a good job, but I think the Japanese voice actors did better overall. The way they say things, it just feels more legitimate, like they're actually there in the situation. So unless I make a point of complaining about them, I generally think that they did a good job.
So first I'll talk about Solid Snake. David Hayter sort of has a jokey way of talking, like Snake is thinking "Here we go again" with the crazy situations he finds himself in. Otsuka sounds much more serious. He really sounds like someone there, dealing with the situation he's in.
I've also always like Christopher Randolph's portrayal of Otacon, and don't really have much to say about him, only that Hideyuki Tanaka has a much deeper voice. It's pretty surprising the first time you hear his voice in Japanese, after hearing the English version for so long. Really though, I think that both voice actors did great and don't have much to say about them.
Not really much to say after this point until Olga shows up. The models in the posters are all the same, by the way.
And here with Olga we see the first major botch in the English version. First though, I'd like to say that I think Vanessa Marshall did a great job as Olga. She really put a lot of energy into the character, and I think that she is actually one of the best voice actors in the game. Olga has always stuck with me over the years, and I think a big part of that is due to her performance. However, she should not have voiced Olga. Something we totally missed out on, that was in the Japanese version and an important part of Olga is the fact that Olga looks the same as Meryl, and even has the exact same voice as Meryl. And this explains a lot of what's going on when she first shows up.
If you watch the scene, you'll notice that her face is obscured at first, with her wearing a hat and holding a radio up to her face. You'll also notice that Snake is constantly trying to get a look at her face, always moving around, trying to see if this is Meryl working with the enemy.
Kyoko Terase does a great job as Olga, and sounds much more intense than the English voice. Since I don't have a problem with Marshall's performance, I don't really have as much to say about Olga, except that her Japanese voice does sound more intimidating.

"I'm a nomad too."
I've always liked this line. What Snake says in Japanese here is more like "I also have no country" which I think reveals something about him. Snake doesn't seem to think of himself as belonging to any one country, but likely sees himself as a citizen of the world.

"You know what you're doing."
In Japanese Olga calls him a "pro", using the English word. I just found that interesting.
There isn't really much more to talk about here until we get to the end of the chapter. I don't really have much to say about Gurlukovich or Dolph.
I've always loved Patric Zimmerman's portrayal of Ocelot, and Koji Totani does a great job as well. Not really much to say here.

"Like I said, I'm taking it back."
This line is a bit different in Japanese. Ocelot instead says it more like "I'm taking it back, isn't that what I said?" What I mean is that in English he says it as a statement, while in Japanese he says it as a question. not a big deal, but I found it pretty interesting.
When Ocelot mentions the Patriots, he uses Japanese words instead. I get more into this in more detail later on in part 4.
I've always loved how Cam Clarke played Liquid Snake. He really sounds like he's enjoying himself while at the same time seething with rage with his position in life. He's brought so much enthusiasm to the role of Liquid, and I really don't have any complaints at all about him. Banjo Ginya does the voice a bit differently. I can still hear him mocking Snake at similar points, but I was surprised with just how intimidating he sounds, he really sounds awesome.
There's not really much else to say for the Tanker Chapter from this point on though.

Part 2: Plant opening to Peter Stillman

First I think I should talk about Raiden, and boy do I have a lot to say. I can't make this clear enough, but Raiden in Japanese sounds nothing at all like his English voice. After being a Quinton Flynn defender for years, I stopped after I read what Mr. Wolfe pointed out about how Flynn consistently emphasizes the wrong words throughout the game, and playing in Japanese, he's totally right. Quinton Flynn played the character as a whiny kid for some reason. I don't know what the hell happened, but the Japanese voice sounds NOTHING like Flynn. Kenyu Horiuchi plays Raiden with a deep, sexy voice. Rather than sounding like some punk kid, Raiden sounds much more serious, and I also get the impression that at first he's trying hard to be badass, like his hero Solid Snake.
Pretty much everyone who played this game hated Raiden, and I blame both Flynn and whoever the hell was directing the voice acting for this game. Flynn isn't necessarily bad, there are points in the game that I thought he did well with, so I have to blame the voice acting directing just as much for the screw ups in this game. I'm sure that someone like Amy Hennig could have gotten a good performance out of Flynn, but instead we're left with a subpar performance for the main character of the game. I completely blame them for Raiden's path after this game, and the fact that he eventually became an electrolyte powered murderbot.
Horiuchi is the one and true voice for Raiden for me now. He does a great job, really making Raiden sound like someone in this situation, and it's a tragedy that we didn't get the same experience as the Japanese. Looking back, I really wish that Robin Atkin Downes had played Raiden instead, since I was very pleased with his later work as Miller, and amazed to hear him pull off an American English accent (if you didn't know, Robin is British. I've known about him for about as long as I've known about Metal Gear). I'm sure that even back then he could have pulled off the accent, and I wish so much that he could have played Raiden. We would have had a totally different view of Raiden if we had been given a better voice actor.
I don't really have much to say about Campbell. Both voices have a strong, authoritative voice, but Takeshi Aono does have a higher voice than Paul Eiding.

"There's a lot of pressure on my torso!"
Flynn says this like there's a problem. Like he's panicking or something. Horiuchi says this line more like he's remarking on it, wondering why. He says it calmly I mean.
Since I'm playing the Legacy version, which is the HD version, the door you open to continue on says "MetalGear2GunOfPatriots". I have no idea why the hell this is here. Who the hell added this to the texture? Why does it even mention Guns of the Patriots? What moron is responsible for this?
Also speaking of the HD version, something I forgot to mention is that when the helicopters are flying towards the Big Shell at the beginning, for some idiotic reason you can see a light from beneath the ocean surface shine THROUGH the Big Shell no matter what's in the way.
When I played the original version of this game in Japan on the PS2, the dog tag part was exactly the same as in our version, even with English displayed everywhere, with Name, Birthday, Blood Type, and Nationality. In the HD version though, all we're given is Codename, Birthday, and Nationality, and we can only enter the month and day for the birthday. As far as I'm concerned, this totally screws up the ending part when Raiden looks at his dog tags. Raiden is supposed to represent the player, and this information is an important part for the end, when Raiden rejects us, we being yet another identity forced on him. As a joke, I put in "Kenyu" for my name, chose some random date, and left the nationality as the default of Japan.
I've never had a problem with Lara Cody's portrayal of Rosemary, though there are some lines that could have been done better. However, as usual, the Japanese voice is better. It's hard to describe, but Kikuko Inoue just sounds better, more legitimate. I also think that she sounds much sexier, but that might just be a preference.
When characters mention "SEAL" we see the name in Roman lettering appear above kanji, but we hear the word in English, so the kanji is a translation.
Vamp doesn't appear enough yet for me to talk about the differences in voice acting, so I'm going to wait until later to fairly compare them.
By the way, until the time when Pliskin is revealed to be Solid Snake, I'm going to refer to him as Pliskin.

"What are you waiting for? Shoot!"
In Japanese we can clearly hear that Pliskin is in pain. I feel that this is important. Pliskin is in pain, unable to fight back, and has to rely on this guy he just met to save his life. I don't think that the idea gets across in English, so sorry Hayter fans, but he screwed this line up.
I didn't catch this the first time I played, but like in English, we can hear Pliskin start to call himself "Snake", then catch himself and say Pliskin. You can just barely hear the "s" sound.

"That's great. A VR grunt of the Digital Age."
Hayter sounds upset and sarcastic when he says this. Otsuka sounds disappointed.

"Snake is dead..."
"And buried."
This is a bit different in Japanese. Instead, Pliskin says some thing more like "That's right."
When Fortune shows up, the Seals don't call her Fortune, but say Japanese words and in the subtitles, "Fortune" appears in katakana above them.
I've never had problem with Maura Gale's voice acting as Fortune overall. I think that she did a good job with every part except for one scene later (when Vamp is shot) that I'll get to later. Yumi Toma however is better. Something I was surprised about is that in Japanese Fortune really sounds like she enjoys killing people. When she's blowing up all the Seals, she sounds really happy, since this is probably the only real joy she has in life anymore.
I don't really have much to say about Mr. "My name is Peter Stillman that is not my real name" (sorry, couldn't resist. City of Glass reference). Both voice actors do a good job.
Again, Raiden just sounds so much more serious rather than like a whiny kid at this part. I mean, I know I'm going to mention this a lot, but this really deserves to be pointed out.
When Raiden gets called by Campbell, Pliskin sounds like he's mocking him for having to take the call.
Pliskin says the "Who dares, wins" line in Japanese. I mean that it's a Japanese translation of the line, while "Semper Fi" is said normal in Latin, with the words appearing in katakana above the equivalent kanji in the subtitles. Also, Marines in the game seem to almost always be referred to as "jarhead".
There's not really much else to say from here on. I stopped here because I was getting tired from listening to and reading all of the Japanese.

Part 3: Mr. X to Ames

Now finally to Mr. X. I remember reading in The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 that Mr. X was planned to speak in the voices of other characters, with I think the original idea being that you wouldn't know who it was, and I thought, man, that would have been so cool if that was actually in the game. Well you know what? It is. Mr. X in speaks in the voices of other characters. This is such a huge botch that I can't believe, that this was left out of the English version. Who the hell missed this? It's so obviously in the game, completely unavoidable. I just want to strangle whatever idiot somehow missed this important part of Mr. X and decided instead to just have him (well, yeah, "her" actually) speak in a single voice. I remember when I was sitting at the hostel, playing this game on the owner's old PS2, and I just felt like we were robbed of the experience we were meant to have. The Japanese saw this game for what it was meant to be, but we foreigners were not allowed to.
When you go up the F-E connecting bridge, Mr. X calls you and tells you about the mines, as you'll recall. So the thing is, first he (hell, I'm just going to say "he" until we get to point when his real identity is revealed) speaks to you in his normal voice, then we hear a sound like a frequency being changed, and a different voice (I'm assuming Kaneto Shinozawa, the voice of Gray Fox in Metal Gear Solid) says a line about stealth equipped claymore mines, which I assume is taken from the audio tracks of Metal Gear Solid. We hear the sound again, and Mr. X starts talking in his normal voice again. What's interesting is that Mr. X says to call him Deep Throat, but after Raiden asks about Shadow Moses, we hear the sound again, and in that other voice, he says to call him Mr. X. I played thorugh this part twice just to make sure I was getting it right was voice said what, so this seems to indicate that Shinozawa returned to say at least that new line.
I called Pliskin a few times, trying to hear him talk about the equipment I was using, but he was going through the normal stuff about Dead Cell and the bombs instead, but something interesting I found is that when he was talking about Fatman, he says "a fat man" in English, displayed like that, not in katakana.
Now next up is what I have to say is probably the biggest, worst, most offensive screw up in the entire game, or at least, the beginning of it. Solidus Snake. When Raiden starts walking toward the stairs go up to the top of Strut E, we hear again, the voice of Meryl/Olga, and talking back to her a voice that sounds exactly like Solid Snake. This part was supposed to be jarring. We were supposed to suddenly hear what sounded like Meryl and Solid Snake talking to each other, or with our knowledge that Olga sounds like Meryl (and the fact that we see her pretty quickly), that Olga, the enemy, is talking with Solid Snake, or maybe this weird, suspicious Pliskin guy who also looks and sounds just like Solid Snake.
I have to make this clear, Solidus sounds EXACTLY like Solid Snake. Raiden even calls up Pliskin and talks to him directly afterwards, and we hear the same voice that we just heard, but now talking to us as an ally. It would have a plot point that makes us untrusting of Pliskin, suspecting that he was secretly working against us. Hell, his whole story is full of holes, as Peter Stillman and Raiden point out, so this part, hearing his voice conspiring with the enemy, would have had a huge impact on us, though it seems that Raiden doesn't make the connection.
Not much to report on after this until we get to the fight with Fortune, and first, I just have to mention that I saw that dumb bug in the game where Fortune walks out and we hear the bugs around her on the floor, but don't see them. Great job HD edition team. Overall, I think that Maura Gale did a fine job as Fortune, except for this part.

"Later, Vamp?"
Maura Gale reads this like they're two separate lines or something. In Japanese, she says it the way it's supposed to be. As in "Catch you later, Vamp?" All one saying. She's saying "Bye, see you later." That sort of idea. Then the next part. As Mr. Wolfe pointed out, it sounds like Fortune is laughing after Vamp gets shot in English. Hell, I wasn't sure if she was supposed to be crying, or crying and laughing. Yumi Toma does an excellent job emoting this. She truley sounds like a woman who has lost the last person that cares about her, like her life is nothing but endless misery, and that she's lost everything worth living for. Her crying in pain sounds so real, and her relief when Vamp comes back to life sounds absolutely genuine as well. I'm guessing Maura was having a bad day when she was recording this part, but really, I again have to blame whoever the hell was directing the voice acting as well.
Not much to say about Fatman. I thought the English voice was well done, and the Japanese voice sounds great as well. But next up is Mr. X again. Like in the English version, he sounds like he's mocking Raiden the whole time. And again, we hear him speak in another voice when he mentions the PAN. I'm guessing that this is an audio clip of Donald Anderson/Decoy Octopus from Metal Gear Solid. Hearing these voices also makes it clear that Olga is going by a script prepared for her by the Patriots. She has these lines prepared, and she has to use them as part of her role.
Before I get to Ames, I wanted to mention Emma's bird. The bird speaks in a very cutesy voice. I seem to remember someone here mentioning that Emma was supposed to sound really cute, so this is kind of a preview of that I suppose.
The next major thing is Ames. Again, I thought the English voice was fine, and the Japanese one is good too. But then we get to the next part, when Solidus shows up, and again, we hear what sounds exactly like Solid Snake talking to Ocelot and Olga. With the window and his outfit obscuring him, we don't get a good look, but we can see that he has white hair. So of course, we get this bizzare sounding conversation with the voices of Ocelot, Meryl, and Solid Snake all talkign to each other as allies. Another thing I found interesting is that when Olga and Ocelot start yelling at each other and pulling guns out, in English Solidus yells at them, while in Japanese, he says his lines more like he's mocking them and what losers they are that no one else in the world will take them in.
I can't remember if I talked about John Cygan yet or not, so I might as well now. Like Vanessa Marshall, he absolutely should not have been cast in his role, but I in no way mean that as an insult. I thought he did an absolutely wonderful job playing Solidus, and is probably part of why that character has stuck with me for so long. He really did do great, putting a lot of emotion and effort into Solidus, which is why I feel a little bad saying that he never should have been cast as Solidus. Obviously, David Hayter should have been the voice of Solidus Snake, it would have been a wonderful opportunity for him, playing both the hero and the villian in the same game, as two separate characters.
I stopped playing after escaping from the Shell 1 Core, because I again was getting mentally fatigued listening to and reading all this Japanese. By the way, I am now at the point that I got to before while I was in Japan, so all of this is going to be new to me. I'm really looking forward to the Harrier fight, hearing the same voice talking to me to offer help, and yelling death threats at me.

Also, I just thought that maybe I should mention this since maybe not everyone is aware, but this is about Raiden's character design. Raiden from what I can tell is supposed to be going along the Japanese idea of a "beautiful male". I'm no expert on this, but you can see this in Japanese culture, of feminine looking males that are considered beautiful. Unfortunately, this didn't totally get into the game I feel looking at his character model. If you compare it to the artwork, you see that he doesn't have the long flowing hair that he's supposed to. Also, from what I understand, his white hair was supposed to be there so that it would be easier to identify with him, because no matter what hair color you have, you'd be able to project yourself onto him with the fact that he has no hair color. I'm also pretty sure that his more feminine build was supposed to appeal to women, and also I guess so it would be easier for them to identify with him as well.
So while in English they seemed to think "girly boy" or something for casting his voice, in Japanese he's got a deep, sexy voice because he's beautiful.
11-12-2015, 11:48 PM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2015 11:50 PM by Victor Katilis.)
Post: #7
RE: Board screwing up
I actually finished playing tanker chapter a few hours ago. Man, those were the fucking times.
Then, 2005 happened.

Anyone else gets the vibe that video games became fucking shit since the launch of the seventh-gen consoles? I mean, fucking everything, the game quality became consistently shit and stale (one or two exceptions every couple years), gamer community became retarded all of a sudden, with devs tooping down right to its level.....

[Image: 2j2bzx2.jpg]
In the age of super-boredom, hype and mediocrity
Celebrate relentlessness, menace to society ©

Big Punisaladin Venomakedic Bossnake ©
My vision is augmented ©
11-13-2015, 12:43 AM
Post: #8
RE: Board screwing up
The part I was talking about with Ocelot is actually at 4:18 in that video. "I regret to inform you that I have no intention of selling Metal Gear. As I said, I came to take it back." In Japanese, that second line is more like "I'm taking it back, didn't I say that?" He says the same idea as a question pretty much. It's a minor thing really, but I found it interesting.
Something I forgot to mention also about Raiden is that from what I can tell, Raiden was supposed to remind us of Gray Fox. There are quite a few similarities. They're both ninja characters who use a sword, they're both former child soldiers, and Gray Fox was even redesigned to look more like Raiden you may have noticed. It also seems to be intentionally reversing roles with Snake. Gray Fox was the one Solid Snake looked up to and learned from as a rookie (at least, that's what Snake claims in Metal Gear Solid, while anyone who's played Metal Gear knows that Gray Fox just says "Good job dude. Go get that Metal Gear" and pretty much does nothing else (I love that part in Ravi's Metal Gear Cliff Notes), while Raiden looks up to Snake and learns from him. I really think that part of the intent with Raiden was to let us feel like we were playing as Gray Fox in a way.

And there's something I forgot to mention about Fatman.

"Laugh and grow fat!"
In Japanese he says a translation of this line, but above it is in English "LAUGH AND GROW FAT". I remember seeing this in the story boards in The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2. I just thought it was interesting. He says the Japanese version of this line though.

Just to let you all know, it might be a couple days before I am able to play MGS2 again. I guess we'll see.
With the last topic gone (hopefully only temporarily) I'll remind you all again that I'm making multiple save points, saving after major events usually, so if there is some part of the game you'd like me to explore to see if there is any difference in Japanese, or maybe a certain Codec call, just let me know and I'll do what I can.
11-13-2015, 11:36 AM (This post was last modified: 11-13-2015 11:40 AM by JohnnySasaki20.)
Post: #9
RE: Board screwing up
(11-13-2015 12:43 AM)DarthCaligula Wrote:  JohnnySasaki-
The part I was talking about with Ocelot is actually at 4:18 in that video. "I regret to inform you that I have no intention of selling Metal Gear. As I said, I came to take it back." In Japanese, that second line is more like "I'm taking it back, didn't I say that?" He says the same idea as a question pretty much. It's a minor thing really, but I found it interesting.

Oh, gotcha. Anyway, I find the whole sequence amazing. The part where Ocelot throws his trench coat up in the air, and then fires through it, is outstanding, in a "cinematographic" way (for lack of a better word) and in an Ocelot's badassery way.

Seriously, I've come to grips with myself that I will never be able to will myself into wanting to play another new MG or MGS related game, but if they make a spin off game, where the playable character is, or at least heavily features the, "pre-MGS4", Patrick Zimmerman's version of Ocelot, I'd buy and play it in a heartbeat. At least, I think I would. I still never can tell, but I know I would be WAY more likely to play it than any of this new crap they're spewing out nowadays.

Anywho, have you yet to figure out why your thread was ctrl-alt-del'ed/manhandled like it was? Shit's fuckin' sacrilege.

(11-12-2015 03:32 PM)jdnation Wrote:  JohnnySasaki20's post will always be left incomplete.

I don't even know what that's suppo

Earlier I Wrote:You forgot about the reptilian shapeshifting raptor aliens, from the planet Nibiru, that live in deep underground bases, who are in cahoots with the Nazi ODESSA Fourth Reich, which is being secretly commanded by Hitler, Elvis, and Tupac Shakur, that have been enslaving us as a genetically designed alien/human hybrid race for thousands of years, by using the illuminati skull and bones freemason society, who built the pyramids with their flying saucers, and are living in the 6 thousand year old hollow earth, via an entrance in Antarctica, to construct a New World Order, which was outlined and enforced by the secret Bilderberg and Council on Foreign Relations groups, at Bohemian Grove, where they dance around naked and worship a devil owl, and developed their master draconian Agenda 21 plan to alter the weather via contrails and HAARP, and eventually depopulate the earth by killing billions of people in FEMA camps. They killed JFK, and Stanley Kubrick faked the moon landings at Area 51. .....also,...uhh,....Jimmy Hoffa...
11-13-2015, 07:59 PM
Post: #10
RE: Board screwing up
It wasn't just that topic. I noticed that my Venom Snake and Black Art Viper topic is gone as well. This isn't some censorship of me at all though, if you look at the topic "Nuclear trailer - making of" it used to have about 15 or so posts I think, and now there are two. I noticed this because I posted there defending The Phantom Pain. It looks like all the posts going back to some certain point have disappeared. I'm really hoping that there is some record and that Ravi can restore it.
I'm planning on just continuing with the game and to keep updating you all. So anyone who didn't have a chance to see my old topic will be missing out I guess. I'm planning on going back to those beginning parts of the game after I beat the game and writing my thoughts about it again. Of course, I'm not looking forward to that, because I'm having so much fun playing this again in a new way, and it sure is nice discussing this game again. So as fun as this is, there's always that knowledge that I'm just getting closer to the end looming above.
In all truth, I actually feel inadequate for doing this, but the thing is that as far as I can tell, no one has tried to do this in all the years since this game came out, so I just figured that I'd do it since I'm decent enough with Japanese, even if I'm not perfect.
11-14-2015, 09:53 PM (This post was last modified: 11-14-2015 09:57 PM by DarthCaligula.)
Post: #11
RE: Board screwing up/MGS2: Lost in Translation Hyper Edition
Part 4: Leaving Shell 1 to going after Emma

I got to play some more, so here we go again.
First, there's just a more general thing I wanted to mention about the Japanese voice acting, which is how they are quicker. These Codec parts are going by much faster than I remembered before.
Anyway, after escaping the Shell 1 Core, I get my sniper rifle and go to the connecting bridge for Shells 1 and 2, finally getting to a part I've been looking forward to for so long. It is so cool hearing the same voice come from Solidus and Solid. While before Otsuka seemed to be playing Solidus to sound just like Solid Snake, now Solidus seems a bit different, more energetic I think, enjoying himself and being able to confront Snake maybe. The Harrier fight is just awesome hearing Solidus and Snake both speaking with the same voice.

"Stop impersonating him!"
Not a translation note, but if you were wondering just what Snake meant by this, The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 explains it in the script. Snake is yelling at Solidus to stop trying to look like Big Boss, who it seems Solidus idolizes.

"They got my eye!"
In English, Solidus seems shocked and mad, but in Japanese, he's happy. Those of you who own The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 and read the script might remember it mentioning how he's happy about losing his eye. It's kind of hard to explain how he delivers it. It's like he's just realized what this means and he's really satisfied. He's happy because he's missing an eye just like Big Boss.
I haven't heard much of Vamp so far, but I think that I prefer his English voice actually, not that his Japanese voice is bad. It is pretty weird hearing his high pitched yell when he jumps out of the Harrier and when he jumps off the water to run up the Big Shell.
Man, it is so much better not hearing Flynn's whiny voice at this part. Horiuchi is just so much better. This is the one and only voice for Raiden as far as I'm concerned. Sorry Quinton Flynn as Raiden defenders, I'm going to have to smack you now if you ever say such idiocy again.
The next big thing would be when Raiden meets with President Johnson. So this is the first time we get to hear someone actually talking about the Patriots, and it's pretty interesting. Johnson is not saying "Patriot", and now I'm beginning to wonder if it is their name in Japanese. Johnson seems to be using the same term that Ocelot used in the Tanker Chapter, which now that I've seen over and over again, I've been able to get a good look at the kanji. Thankfully, it's made of up three out of four kanji I recognize on sight. The name they're saying pretty much translates to "Those who love their country".
The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 explains that some people, probably important people that the Patriots have their eyes on, get some sort of implant or something, I'm not totally sure, but some sort of interference that prevents them from naming the Patriots, and so that instead they say a nonsense term "La li lu le lo", which from what I understand has to do with the Japanese music scale. Like I said, I'm not going to factor in any of the games that came after while exploring this game in Japanese, but remember in MGS4 how Drebin says "I ain't no 'La li lu...' That is, I ain't no Patriot." This is part of it, showing how Drebin seems to be allowed to state their name.
So assuming that the Patriots in Japanese use the word "Patriot" in English for their name, it could be that Ocelot and Johnson are using a different term, "Those who love their county" to get around this block. Otherwise, it would seem that "The Patriots" was a translation. I'll wait to see on this one.
Also, more of a side thing, but I loved it when I learned that Johnson in English was voiced by Paul Lukather, since I'm a Legacy of Kain fan. He did the voice of Vorador in the Legacy of Kain games, and died about a year ago.
I almost feel like I'm forgetting to mention something I noticed, but if I remember more, I'll just post follow ups like I've been doing anyway. So next time I'll finally be able to hear Emma.

(11-12-2015 11:48 PM)Victor Katilis Wrote:  I actually finished playing tanker chapter a few hours ago. Man, those were the fucking times.
Then, 2005 happened.

Anyone else gets the vibe that video games became fucking shit since the launch of the seventh-gen consoles? I mean, fucking everything, the game quality became consistently shit and stale (one or two exceptions every couple years), gamer community became retarded all of a sudden, with devs tooping down right to its level.....

Yeah, I'm not sure if it's nostalgia, but I sort of feel the same way. It just seems like there's less creativity, developers are taking less risks, and we're not getting such interesting games. I mean, I'm not sure if a game like Soul Reaver would ever be allowed made nowadays. That other topic talking about how stupid Konami is turning is a good example too.
11-16-2015, 01:07 PM (This post was last modified: 11-16-2015 01:13 PM by Snake_Plissken.)
Post: #12
RE: Board screwing up/MGS2: Lost in Translation Hyper Edition
The last game that felt "complete" to me was The Darkness for PS3. It had everything, free roam, realistic textures and character models, gun play, special powers, interesting and deep story, zombie nazis in hell before CoD overdid it, Allies with pig skin on there face you could kill and they would come back to life in a couple of min and just stare at you, very grim atmosphere, and you could literally watch the old black and white movie "To Kill a Mockingbird" with your girlfriend Jenny. Also in other areas you could watch the entire first season of the black and white version of "Flash Gordan".

Hell it even had that one cool guy from Goodfellas that played your dead Grandpa trapped in hell which was also inside the confinds of the mind of The Darkness.

However the sequal was linear garbage and cell shaded cartoony bullshit. I blame those bastards at Borderlands for that crap. They should have never have been allowed to touch The Darkness sequal. Now there will never be a 3rd Darkness because of there shitty lazy modeling, lazy cell shade textures, and lazy map design.

Only mainstream gamers consider Borderlands a real game anyways fuck the Borderlands devs and there entire fanbase.
11-17-2015, 10:15 PM
Post: #13
RE: Board screwing up/MGS2: Lost in Translation Hyper Edition
I've played Borderlands before. Is it really popular? To me, it just felt really generic, though it got more interesting when I got some powers. A friend of mine got sick of it before getting any powers though, just because that beginning part just feels like just such a generic shooter.

Part 5: Emma
So now I get to really hear Vamp talk. In all truth, he just doesn't really stand out to me in Japanese. I actually prefer the English version of Vamp. So sorry, Ryotaro Okiayu, but I think Phil LaMarr did better. Nothing much to say about this part, except that every character so far is referring to the Patriots as "Those who love their country", so I'll have to wait until Ocelot and JFK talk I guess to see if they say "Patriot" or if this truly is their name in Japanese.
I see the same "MetalGear2GunsofPatriots" thing on a few doors while swimming around, so they reused that texture. It's still totally stupid and annoying.
And next is Emma, and boy do I have a lot to say about her. I feel I have to be somewhat harsh on Jennifer Hale. She isn't a bad voice actor, but we got a completely different version of her than how she's supposed to act. Emma in Japanese sounds more innocent and sad I would say. She isn't nearly as assertive sounding as she is in English, instead I get the feeling that this is a very sad woman who has carried this sadness for years. Something worth mentioning is that he never calls her brother "Hal" like in English. Instead, she says "onii-chan" and I think I should explain this a bit. From my understanding, the Japanese word for brother (I think technically only an older brother) is "onii-san". Now the thing is that "onii-san" is more formal, while "onii-chan" is more affectionate. By having her call him "onii-chan" I think it shows that she cares about him, but in truth I can't say for certain.
Another thing that I didn't realize until I read it in The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 is that Raiden and Emma are actually supposed to be flirting through all of this, and it shows much better in Japanese. Again, Horiuchi does a much better job than Flynn. I really think Flynn and Hale messed this up, because we were supposed to tell from the way they talk to each other that they're flirting. Raiden also shows much more kindness to her in the Japanese audio I feel.
Again, I have to mention this, that Emma is more assertive in English. When talking about GW or Y2K, she isn't talking like she's in charge like in the English version, but instead she just sounds like she knows all this stuff, but more like she really was just used by the Patriots for her intelligence. It's hard to describe, but she just sounds much sadder and more innocent in Japanese.

"We've managed to avoid drowning!"
People like to make fun of this line, mostly because of how Flynn delivers it. In Japanese, it seems more like he's just letting Campbell know that they made it through, and I think that he's also proud of himself for protecting Emma. Again, because he's flirting with Emma, I get the feeling that he's also just feeling happier having her around. His happiness with being with Emma might also be due to the fact that he's been so devoid of much human contact that wasn't trying to kill him for so long, especially with a woman, so he's bonding with Emma.
Something that was unfortunately completely lost in the English voice acting has to do with Emma and Hal's relationship. In English, she seems to almost always sound like she's angry and picking a fight, but in Japanese, it's the complete opposite. Emma always starts off calm and sad, and I get the feeling that she desperately wants to talk to Hal, but Hal keeps pushing her, accusing her of helping to make things that will kill people and such. I kept calling Snake to hear all of these conversations because I was really interested in how Emma was supposed to be, and it's the same each time. Emma starts calm and Hal pushes her until Emma gets mad and starts arguing back, and when she finally reaches the point that she's really upset and yelling at him, Snake comes in and cuts them off.
I dragged Emma into the bugs to see her reaction, and she sounded really scared of them, more than in English I think. At least, I don't seem to remember her sounding as scared in English.
When Raiden is mad about not having the card to open the door and continue, and Emma gives it to him, instead of sounding upset like in English, it sounds more like he's upset, but still flirting with her how he says it, like "Now now, Emma. You should have told me you had this."
I thought Christopher Randolph did a fine job acting out the crying when Emma dies, but in truth, Hideyuki Tanaka does better. I mean, I thought Randolph did a good job and all, but Tanaka just still manages to sound more legitimate.
Also, a small note here, not really related to the translation. I'd have to double check, but I seem to remember reading in the script in The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 that when Hal starts saying "Emma? Emma?!" when she dies, that this is actually supposed to be the last thing Emma hears, so she did get to hear him call her by name after all. If you look close, you can see her smiling right after he says her name.
Not really much else to say about all this. I still wonder if there's any significance to the fact that the model for Mr. X/Olga's reflection at this point is actually Raiden with no hair. You can't really see it at all in the game itself, but in The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 you can see this if you move the camera around. Maybe they just didn't want to bother programming a reversed Mr. X model or something. At least, I think those reflection models are reversed..... I have no idea.
I stopped here because this next part with Arsenal Gear is so crazy and all, so I want to have a rested mind before I get into that.
11-18-2015, 01:21 PM
Post: #14
RE: Board screwing up/MGS2: Lost in Translation Hyper Edition
Yeah I always thought that myself. I always thought it was strange that the last thing she tells Otacon all she wants to hear before she dies is Otacon to say her real name and Otacon said something like "what are you talking about E.E?" as if Otacon didn't hear her or understand. Then she dies first and then he is all like "Emma?" "Emma?"

What an ass.
11-18-2015, 03:44 PM (This post was last modified: 11-18-2015 03:47 PM by DarthCaligula.)
Post: #15
RE: Board screwing up/MGS2: Lost in Translation Hyper Edition
Actually ,the more I think about it, the more upset I get about how Emma came about in English as well, and I'm not really sure who's to blame. Emma is supposed to be a sad woman, still lonely and having issues about the death of her step-father and her step-brother who abandoned her and who she loves (he's almost certainly the one guy with glasses that she mentions she liked). The difference in how Emma acts between the two is almost as big as the difference with Raiden. She just seems too forceful and angry in English. Because the Japanese voice acting is the original and closest to the intent of the creators, we have to use that as the model for how these characters should be, and Emma just is totally wrong in English I feel.
The thing is that I know that Jennifer Hale is a good voice actress, so I'm not sure if she's to blame, or if I should once again go after the one who did the directing of the voice actors. I mean, didn't these people listen to the Japanese voices at all to get a feel for the characters? Sure doesn't seem so. It seems like they just read the lines, looked at the art and I guess the scenes themselves, and then got their own ideas. I mean, Emma is just totally wrong in English. Jennifer Hale didn't necessarily do a bad job acting, it's just that the character comes across as totally different from how she's supposed to be. This is another case where I feel like we foreigners were cheated out of the experience we were meant to have.
God, that whole part with Emma just really brought me down. It's just so goddamned sad. Her whole miserable life, wishing she could meet with her brother again and when we finally does, just being yelled at by him and getting into arguments, only being able to have a nice conversation and say what she wanted as she's dying. And just remembering that sad voice of hers....
I really wish I could have a copy of this game with the Japanese audio and the English translation, that would be the best way to play it. As I think about playing this game again in English, all I can think is how I'll just get pissed every time I hear Raiden, when I get to Mr. X, when I hear Olga or Solidus, and when I hear Emma.

A small note also, when the bird is saying "Hal, I miss you." The line in Japanese is kind of hard to translate, so I understand why it was done the way is was, but in Japanese she says something like "Onii-chan, I want to meet again." She says "onii-chan" and then I recognize the kanji for "meet". It's kind of how Japanese grammar works. She just mentions meeting without other specific words, but you can get what the meaning is.
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