Board screwing up/MGS2: Lost in Translation Hyper Edition

[Canucklehead]

Even if you do play it, you don't really play it. You either take the long road and crawl everywhere at a snail's pace, or you take the easy route and Syphon Filter your way through in about six seconds per Act.

[DarthCaligula]

Six seconds per act? Do you mean going on the warpath or something? And yeah, I'm sure looking forward to seeing Old Snake hump the ground a bunch again. I'm still trying to decide if I should try to tranquilize everyone like I've been doing with these recent playthroughs, or if I should just slaughter the enemy. You know, I've never actually killed any of the Beauties....

[Canucklehead]

I find the games most fun when you sneak without even messing the enemies. Maybe use noise as a distraction or something, but I hate the fact that you can just headshot everyone with the Traq guns and run past them.

The Tranq guns should not have been available on any difficulties beyond Easy.

[Mr. Wolfe]

(01-19-2016 12:46 AM)DarthCaligula Wrote:  Maybe I didn't make it clear, but I was talking about how it's different in the HD version. And I made a mistake in my complaint. It's not the video that got some time cut off, it's the audio. At the beginning of the song there's this high pitched noise, but it was cut out in this version. Some idiot probably thought the noise was a mistake and edited that part out, then no one checked to see if the thing actually matched up. Some AAA quality control there.

I finally got to play some more today, up to the fight with Ocelot.

When Zero gives Big Boss the cigar, he says it's from Havana, rather than just saying it's Cuban.

In the conversation between Johnson and Krushev, Johnson sounds more smug and in control in Japanese. In English I got the sense that he was more just going "Who, me?" when Krushev accuses him of all this.

I noticed that the poster in Big Boss's drone is Yumi Kikuchi. I thought her name was familiar and it turns out that she was Raging Raven in MGS4.

"Who are the Patriots?" and "La li lu le lo."
So I finally got to hear the word in Japanese more clearly, though it's actually only three fourths of the title that was in MGS2. "Patriot" is said as "Aikokusha" using the characters for "love" "country" and "person" ("person" as in one who does something, rather than for the concept of an individual person, if you get what I mean). I can't remember now for some reason, but I think in MGS2 when they say "La li lu le lo" it's written in katakana, but this time, it was written in hiragana (katakana is generally used for foreign words, emphasis, sound effects, and sounding things out. Hiragana is used for native words generally).

This is also the first time I've played Snake Eater since playing Peace Walker, and I noticed that before the scene with The Boss, there are a bunch of butterflies in the area. Is this a recurring thing in the game, butterflies appearing around The Boss? Because in Peace Walker, butterflies are constantly used with The Boss and Peace Walker.

I noticed that Zero and Big Boss seem pretty friendly when talking to each other. At least, they seem more friendly than they did in the English version, like these two are friends who have known each other for a while.

"There's no need to prove you are virtuous."
She actually says "virtuous" in English here. The subtitles show the equivalent kanji with katakana for "virtuous" above it. Likely because it's obviously calling back to the Virtuous Mission.

In the call after Big Boss gets beat up by The Boss, I noticed that Zero really seems to want The Boss dead, and he really gets angry when Big Boss starts arguing back. I'd say this is the first big surprise I've seen for the differences in voice acting.

I know there's this theory going around about how Suzetta Minet is actually Debbi Mae West, so maybe some of you are wondering about Eva's Japanese voice. Well, first of all, the voice is clearly of a different woman, and I looked up the voice actress, Misa Watanabe, and she has a long career, so there's pretty much zero chance that this is Terase.

When Big Boss and Eva are talking about the M1911, they say "engrave" and "tactical advantage" in English, again with the equivalent kanji in subtitles with katakana above.

"Broomhandle" is also said in English, and with the kanji and katakana.

When the Ocelot unit shows up, Eva calls them "yamaneko" so it seems safe to say that "Ocelot" is used for the character, and "yamaneko" is used for his unit. I never really thought about this before, but it seems that we were supposed to notice a similarity between Snake and Ocelot. Both have animal names, and in Japanese, when Big Boss is given the name "Snake" they say "hebi", Japanese for "snake" a few times, and this still comes up every so often, and the same sort of thing is kind of going on with Ocelot and "yamaneko", which is "mountain cat" as I explained before.

This is also not really connected with translation stuff, but I actually saw something in this game that I had never seen before this time through. When I fought Ocelot, I shot the beehive above him at one point, and later on, he actually did the same thing back at me. I've never seen him use the beehive trick on me before, and I thought it was really cool.

In the 007 save conversation, after Zero rants about how much he loves James Bond, when Para-Medic talks to Big Boss about how Zero's obsessed with James Bond, she's actually whispering. Obviously it's supposed to be that since she's in the plane with him, she doesn't want Zero overhearing her.

This also reminds me of something that I notice that I forgot to mention about MGS2. When Emma is dying, being held by Hal, Snake and Raiden talk about the computer virus. In Japanese, you can clearly hear them whispering, likely so that Emma won't hear and get worried. They only seem to raise their voices when the virus fails, and that's when Emma asks if something is wrong.

This is pretty good stuff.

[Canucklehead]

(02-04-2016 06:37 PM)Mr. Wolfe Wrote:  

(01-19-2016 12:46 AM)DarthCaligula Wrote:  Maybe I didn't make it clear, but I was talking about how it's different in the HD version. And I made a mistake in my complaint. It's not the video that got some time cut off, it's the audio. At the beginning of the song there's this high pitched noise, but it was cut out in this version. Some idiot probably thought the noise was a mistake and edited that part out, then no one checked to see if the thing actually matched up. Some AAA quality control there.

I finally got to play some more today, up to the fight with Ocelot.

When Zero gives Big Boss the cigar, he says it's from Havana, rather than just saying it's Cuban.

In the conversation between Johnson and Krushev, Johnson sounds more smug and in control in Japanese. In English I got the sense that he was more just going "Who, me?" when Krushev accuses him of all this.

I noticed that the poster in Big Boss's drone is Yumi Kikuchi. I thought her name was familiar and it turns out that she was Raging Raven in MGS4.

"Who are the Patriots?" and "La li lu le lo."
So I finally got to hear the word in Japanese more clearly, though it's actually only three fourths of the title that was in MGS2. "Patriot" is said as "Aikokusha" using the characters for "love" "country" and "person" ("person" as in one who does something, rather than for the concept of an individual person, if you get what I mean). I can't remember now for some reason, but I think in MGS2 when they say "La li lu le lo" it's written in katakana, but this time, it was written in hiragana (katakana is generally used for foreign words, emphasis, sound effects, and sounding things out. Hiragana is used for native words generally).

This is also the first time I've played Snake Eater since playing Peace Walker, and I noticed that before the scene with The Boss, there are a bunch of butterflies in the area. Is this a recurring thing in the game, butterflies appearing around The Boss? Because in Peace Walker, butterflies are constantly used with The Boss and Peace Walker.

I noticed that Zero and Big Boss seem pretty friendly when talking to each other. At least, they seem more friendly than they did in the English version, like these two are friends who have known each other for a while.

"There's no need to prove you are virtuous."
She actually says "virtuous" in English here. The subtitles show the equivalent kanji with katakana for "virtuous" above it. Likely because it's obviously calling back to the Virtuous Mission.

In the call after Big Boss gets beat up by The Boss, I noticed that Zero really seems to want The Boss dead, and he really gets angry when Big Boss starts arguing back. I'd say this is the first big surprise I've seen for the differences in voice acting.

I know there's this theory going around about how Suzetta Minet is actually Debbi Mae West, so maybe some of you are wondering about Eva's Japanese voice. Well, first of all, the voice is clearly of a different woman, and I looked up the voice actress, Misa Watanabe, and she has a long career, so there's pretty much zero chance that this is Terase.

When Big Boss and Eva are talking about the M1911, they say "engrave" and "tactical advantage" in English, again with the equivalent kanji in subtitles with katakana above.

"Broomhandle" is also said in English, and with the kanji and katakana.

When the Ocelot unit shows up, Eva calls them "yamaneko" so it seems safe to say that "Ocelot" is used for the character, and "yamaneko" is used for his unit. I never really thought about this before, but it seems that we were supposed to notice a similarity between Snake and Ocelot. Both have animal names, and in Japanese, when Big Boss is given the name "Snake" they say "hebi", Japanese for "snake" a few times, and this still comes up every so often, and the same sort of thing is kind of going on with Ocelot and "yamaneko", which is "mountain cat" as I explained before.

This is also not really connected with translation stuff, but I actually saw something in this game that I had never seen before this time through. When I fought Ocelot, I shot the beehive above him at one point, and later on, he actually did the same thing back at me. I've never seen him use the beehive trick on me before, and I thought it was really cool.

In the 007 save conversation, after Zero rants about how much he loves James Bond, when Para-Medic talks to Big Boss about how Zero's obsessed with James Bond, she's actually whispering. Obviously it's supposed to be that since she's in the plane with him, she doesn't want Zero overhearing her.

This also reminds me of something that I notice that I forgot to mention about MGS2. When Emma is dying, being held by Hal, Snake and Raiden talk about the computer virus. In Japanese, you can clearly hear them whispering, likely so that Emma won't hear and get worried. They only seem to raise their voices when the virus fails, and that's when Emma asks if something is wrong.

This is pretty good stuff.

Quite.

[DarthCaligula]

Hey, there you are Mr. Wolfe. Pretty good stuff? Thanks, though MGS1 and MGS3 didn't have quite as much to talk about as MGS2. Over time I also decided to stop mentioning every single instance of the characters saying something in English, with kanji in the subtitles and katakana above it. I just started mentioning it for stuff I thought was interesting, like how the Cobras use Japanese words that are the same concept as their code name.

Oh yeah, at the end, when Ocelot is talking on the phone, I think in English he refers to the other person as "Mr. Director" or something, in Japanese, he mentions the CIA specifically, and I think he says something like "CIA commander" or some idea like that.

[Canucklehead]

Well, that does make sense since there is no Commander of the CIA.

[DarthCaligula]

Well, I'm just translating the concept. I can't remember what exactly he said, and I saved over my file with a completed game save. I didn't do multiple saves in this like I did in MGS2. I am planning on having a save for each act of MGS4 though, just because I've got a good feeling about this one.

[Canucklehead]

If you have a good feeling about MGS4, it'll literally be the only good thing MGS4 has.

[DarthCaligula]

I mean as far as differences between the English and Japanese voice acting, not that I think the gameplay and story didn't suck in the Japanese version (OK, the gameplay is only fun for about half the game...).

[Canucklehead]

I know what you meant. It was a joke. Fuck and other assorted crime-words.

[DarthCaligula]

There were a couple things I forgot to mention about Snake Eater.

"Eva, you're the spy!"
In English, Ocelot kind of yells this at her. In Japanese, he says it more quietly, like "You can't fool me." I'm still trying to keep it straight if Ocelot actually knew that Tanya and Eva were the same person or not, just how much he knew about what was going on in the game.

When MiGs fly off, for the first time I actually heard Otsuka sound happy. It's kind of weird, because in all of the games so far, I haven' t heard him play Snake, Solidus, or Big Boss actually happy. Even when Snake learns good life lessons and rides off with Meryl at the end of MGS1, he sounds optimistic, but it's not the same. It was just pretty strange hearing him play a character who's experiencing genuine happiness.

[DarthCaligula]

"I hold your nanomachines captive and Otacon's girlfriend hostage. With my gangs of PMCs and Beauties, nobody can stop me now. Meet my demands - or else!

PS Snake & Raiden if you interfere, you'll be in for the fight of your lives!

... Liquid Ocelot"



That's right everyone, it's time for Metal Gear Solid 4: Retcon City Ransom, starring Solid Snake as Kunio, and Raiden as Riki.

Part 1: Opening to Drebin

So starting with how the game is presented, the menu is again in English, but when I went to options, everything was in Japanese, though it didn't take me long to figure out what was what so I could invert the Y axis. To get used to the controls I went to the VR firing range or whatever it's called and while I was screwing around there, I decided to look at the music in the iPod, which is actually all in Japanese in this version. Something interesting I found in there is a song called "Two-Han Princess", which I remember hearing in the English version, some J pop sounding song. Did it have this name in English as well? I guess this is the first time I've played since learning about Two-Han/2.5 from the Japanese and European version of Metal Gear Ghost Babel.

As I had read before, the opening TV show and commercials are the same as what we have, all in English, though they of course have Japanese subtitles. I saw the ad for the PMC with the two women flying around and when it showed the Russian words, there were actually Japanese subtitles at the bottom, though I have no idea what they said, since I didn't really look.

In the opening, when Snake is doing his "War has changed" thing, the names of the cast are shown in English, and in Western order, for example, Akio Otsuka, rather than Otsuka Akio. I also have to say that I love it so much that I can pause during the cutscenes in this, it makes writing notes so much easier.

I'm a little surprised with Otsuka's acting in this one, compared to Hayter. Hayter played Snake with a voice like he's old, but Otsuka seems to sound the same as he always had.

When it shows the names of characters, for example, Old Snake, it shows the same wording we saw, but over it is text with the name in katakana and the name of the voice actor in kanji.

When it shows the "No place for Hideo" box, there are subtitles in Japanese that show up whenever the words are visible. So obviously this was something he wanted the player to see.

Whenever there are words displayed like "Three days earlier", it's in English like what we got, and there are Japanese subtitles below it.

Also, I must be a complete idiot, because I just can not figure out how to drag guys. Square does nothing, I thought triangle was supposed to do it from what I tested in VR, but Snake instead is just tapping on the guy, I tried circle and that does nothing. How do I drag them?

Also, in the mission briefing, when Campbell mentions PMCs and says what they mean, he says the name in Japanese, and in the subtitles it has the words in Japanese and above it says in English "Private Military Company".

When Drebin says "Eye Have You", the subtitles say "EYE HAVE YOU".

I had trouble concentrating at this point, so I stopped playing. I'm keeping multiple save files for this game as well, so if there's anything you'd like me to explore, go ahead and ask.

Also, this isn't really about the translation, but playing this game again just reminds me of something that Mr. Wolfe talked about at his site. Kojima likes to compare the Metal Gear games to movies, and it's pretty easy to see. Playing Snake Eater again, I could see just how much it feels like an over the top spy movie from the 60's, and with this one, everything instead is like TV. Mr. Wolfe thinks that this is supposed to be viewed more like some cheesy TV movie.
There's quite a bit here that brings TV to mind. We see a show first, then an ad, then the game starts. Whenever Snake gets hurt hard, the screen gets static on it, like there's some trouble with the signal, and when you die, the screen goes to static. I know that there's got to be some sort of meaning here, but maybe only Kojima knows. If the other MGS games are theatrical movies, then maybe this is supposed to just be some garbage TV movie.
Also, on that subject, Kojima also says in the official guide to The Phantom Pain that the game is supposed to be more of a TV series, which you can easily see in the missions, starting with things like who wrote it and who stars in it, and then ending with credits.

[Repugnance]

(02-08-2016 01:10 AM)DarthCaligula Wrote:  Did it have this name in English as well?

Yeah, but Two-Han-Princess was the artist I believe.

Quote:Also, I must be a complete idiot, because I just can not figure out how to drag guys. Square does nothing, I thought triangle was supposed to do it from what I tested in VR, but Snake instead is just tapping on the guy, I tried circle and that does nothing. How do I drag them?

R1 is the cqc button.

[DarthCaligula]

No, I mean dragging a body. I looked in the English manual a bit but for some reason couldn't find it. I'll just look later.
Hmmm. I think my good feeling about the differences between the English and Japanese voice acting might not be true after all. I'm hoping that when it gets to the later stuff I'll find some interesting things.

Part 2: Meryl to the end of Act 1

Well, there's not really all that much to say here. When Meryl and Snake talk about the Rat Patrol, Snake says something comparing Foxhound and the Rat patrol. He says the Japanese words for them, and in the subtitles it says "FOXHOUND" and "RAT" with katakana above it. If you're wondering, I'm just killing everyone when I fight instead of knocking them out, though I have been just using CQC on the militia.

"Isn't it funny?!"
I remember Laughing Octopus saying this in English when she leaves at the end. It seems that the Japanese voice is just laughing and not saying anything though.

Some of you may already know this, but the voice actor for Revolver Ocelot, Koji Totani, died before this game was made, so instead Banjo Ginga, the voice of Liquid Snake, does the voice, which makes no sense of course with the "DUR HUR HUR! HE WAS HYPNOTIZING HIMSELF!" explanation. So why the hell does he sound like Liquid Snake if he's not actually being possessed, which was the explanation in MGS2, and further reinforced by Ocelot being the son of The Sorrow, so likely inheriting his father's medium powers? What, did he change his vocal cords? OMGWTF VOCAL CORD PARASITES!!!!! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!!!!!

Also, after listing to Snake's voice more, I think that Otsuka is indeed playing the voice a bit harsher, like Snake is old. I know I've said this before, but I just love his voice, he sounds so cool.